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Side Effects Of Too Many Lowid's

#21 User is offline   Enig123 

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 03:18 AM

View Postdavexnet, on 03 March 2021 - 06:52 PM, said:

What ever is/isn't being considered, it's clear that these rogue clients have surpassed the ability to be properly detected,
and I have a situation where a user with the same hash is downloading the same file twice in active clients,
and there's a third, on the queue, same user/hash different file.


I feel you. You can try my mod, which has aforementioned features.
https: //www.emule-secrete.cf
without the space.
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#22 User is offline   oldfart 

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Posted 22 February 2022 - 07:37 PM

Sorry to bump an old thread, but's it's been bothering me since I first read it last week.
And I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been keeping up on everything for quite a while now, so I'm hoping that I'm not being ignorant but...

Back to the original post, low-id clients.

I'm low-id and have NO way to fix it, out of my hands. And according to all I've read, it's not only a common problem but quite likely to become even more so.
Since reading this thread, I've tracked my uploads and not a single low-id client has been seen. Seems wrong, partly because it never used to be that way but especially because it's a network where the vast majority of clients have low-id.

Once upon a time there was help for low-id clients. I had assumed (silly me) that eMule followed the same practice as the original network client and used high-id clients to bridge the gap between low-id connections. I don't remember how many low-id clients each high-id would manage (I think only 2) and I believe it was only on individual files in common with said clients, but it did work with minimal additional network overhead and allowed low-id's to take a more active part.

Does eMule use this method or was it dropped somewhere along the way?
Torrents don't have this problem, could their method be adopted by eMule?
Are any of the Mods actively working on the problem?

I realize that Swamps original method wouldn't fix the problem in a network of 90% low-ids, but it would help.
And not being a coder I really don't know what would be best for the network and client.
But common sense tells me it's do-able or Torrents would have a low-id problem too.

This post has been edited by oldfart: 22 February 2022 - 08:04 PM

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#23 User is offline   davexnet 

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 06:07 PM

View Postoldfart, on 22 February 2022 - 12:37 PM, said:

Sorry to bump an old thread, but's it's been bothering me since I first read it last week.
And I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been keeping up on everything for quite a while now, so I'm hoping that I'm not being ignorant but...

Back to the original post, low-id clients.

I'm low-id and have NO way to fix it, out of my hands. And according to all I've read, it's not only a common problem but quite likely to become even more so.
Since reading this thread, I've tracked my uploads and not a single low-id client has been seen. Seems wrong, partly because it never used to be that way but especially because it's a network where the vast majority of clients have low-id.

Once upon a time there was help for low-id clients. I had assumed (silly me) that eMule followed the same practice as the original network client and used high-id clients to bridge the gap between low-id connections. I don't remember how many low-id clients each high-id would manage (I think only 2) and I believe it was only on individual files in common with said clients, but it did work with minimal additional network overhead and allowed low-id's to take a more active part.

Does eMule use this method or was it dropped somewhere along the way?
Torrents don't have this problem, could their method be adopted by eMule?
Are any of the Mods actively working on the problem?

I realize that Swamps original method wouldn't fix the problem in a network of 90% low-ids, but it would help.
And not being a coder I really don't know what would be best for the network and client.
But common sense tells me it's do-able or Torrents would have a low-id problem too.


I don't know the technical details but in general, when the torrent client is unable to make use of it's incoming port
because the port isn't forwarded or similar reason, it limits the connectivity, and this may affect the downloads and/or uploads.
I'm not sure how this is mitigated or managed in comparison to eMule.

I don't think lowID users can "see" other lowID users - This may explain your experience, ie. your uploads
are all HighID. I've never heard that HighID could "bridge the gap", but I don't have any info of the code internals,
just based on what I see as a user.

Regarding my own client, I have found a way to give HighID users priority above and beyond what ever the system does automatically.
I'm using powershare in a way that lowers the bandwidth for my most popular files. I posted my thoughts about that but didn't get
any response
(General discussions/My Workaround For An Unbalanced Ecosystem)
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#24 User is offline   oldfart 

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Posted 29 April 2022 - 01:01 AM

Thanks for answering, glad that I decided to check back in.
And you're right, low-id clients don't see each other. Like I said I'm not a coder so I can't help with details, but I was involved in a few conversations with Swamp (on the rare occasion that he would be active on the eD2k board). Simplistically stated, he mentioned that a high-id client would act as a go between with the low-ids, providing each with the necessary data needed to work together. A go-between, the middleman. And he kept each high-ids load low so as to have little or no noticeable impact on their own use. I seem to remember it at 2, so it might have been connecting 1 low-id to another, but it also could of been 2+2. Can't remember, too many years ago. And as eDonkey was never open source, no clue where you could see how. But every little bit helps.

I read your "Workaround" post and understand your outlook, but disagree with it. You should remember that high-id clients already have a major advantage over low-ids... they can download from every client on the network, so have plenty of access to files and sources. Low-ids are very limited. After all, High-ids have access to 100% of the network where as Low-ids see what, maybe 10% of all users?
Even more embarrassing is how hard it is to keep a respectable upload/download ratio when you have low-id as very few clients can see what you have or even need it. I just started up again after years, with low-id, and I can tell ya it sux, lol. I did find that at 1500 shared files my ratio stopped getting worse, and now at just over 1900 shared, it's finally approaching a proper balance.
But how many people know how to get the most out of their client and network like I do? Definitely no one who is trying it out for the first time.
How many potential sharers are lost because of the low-id problem? Anyone's guess.

IMO, eD2k is the best sharing network ever but low-id is its Achilles heel. If anyone can ever solve it...
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#25 User is offline   davexnet 

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 11:52 PM

I understand your point of view also. I was somewhat forced into doing something,
due to troubles with my ISP. I had to limit my overall upload speed and total throughput,
the same files being uploaded again and again to lowID users because they couldn't share which each other -
so I came up with this idea and that's what I'm running now. My upload B/W is only 58 KB/s
but it's stable.

THe only way I can see that highID could help with the lowID users is that the lowID user had to wait
until a HighID had parts or the whole file then it would available - this is helping in an indirect way.
If there was something else, perhaps it was specific to a certain client.

Emule should have found a way years ago to get the highID numbers up, or a better way of handling it.
Today, lowID is about 90%, how many are due to technical limitations Vs. users just ignorant and couldn't be bothered
to set up the port I don't know.
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#26 User is offline   oldfart 

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Posted 05 May 2022 - 12:03 PM

I understand.
What confuses me most, is why is it a problem on eD2k but not in a torrent.
Not that I'm not grateful to Developers, I couldn't do any of it. And I understand that one is a network, the other just a file sharing protocol. But at the end of the day they both accomplish the same thing.
So why is it a problem for one but not the other?
If that ever gets fixed, the eD2k could grow back to a decent size. And that's the biggest problem with the network, not enough users. The alternative works for every one so why fight it? <_<
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#27 User is offline   davexnet 

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 11:33 PM

It's also a problem with torrents. If you were a member of a private tracker and your port was not open,
you would probably have a hard time maintaining your ratio and you'd most likely be kicked out.

What do you mean "the alternative works for everyone" ?

Today I had something in my small queue (about 15) that I'd never seen before -
there were 8 users all trying to upload the same file from me. Only one of them was HighID.

I would like to be able to devote most of bandwidth to that HighID user, but it's not so simple
with the controls that are available. In general he tends to get more B/W anyway, becasue the HighID
is a more reliable connection.

What is the technical reason HighID is not available to you?
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#28 User is offline   oldfart 

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 09:45 AM

View Postdavexnet, on 15 May 2022 - 05:33 PM, said:

It's also a problem with torrents. If you were a member of a private tracker and your port was not open,
you would probably have a hard time maintaining your ratio and you'd most likely be kicked out.

What do you mean "the alternative works for everyone" ?
The alternative IS torrents. They took over, became the "Main Stream" option. The eD2k used to host over 18 million users, now (with low-id) I don't even see 100,000. But on the rare occasion that I might torrent I really don't have any major trouble with this connection or with ratio. Never had troubles keeping a proper ratio (and had memberships on a couple of the forums that started the ratio tracking) even with a NAT'd connection.
My main problem with ratio now is due to the lack of available users to share with. Low-id might be the cause of that but in the past - because of the much higher user base - low-id was only a minor hindrance, a little patience was all you really needed. You're having troubles because of it, too. With high-id you should have a MUCH bigger queue.

View Postdavexnet, on 15 May 2022 - 05:33 PM, said:

Today I had something in my small queue (about 15) that I'd never seen before -
there were 8 users all trying to upload the same file from me. Only one of them was HighID.
I don't see that as a problem. All I see is high-id clients. They're the only folks who upload from me and to me. So basically what you're saying is that you would like to give them an even bigger network share than they already have. Remember, they already have access to approx 90% more sources than low-id clients.

View Postdavexnet, on 15 May 2022 - 05:33 PM, said:

I would like to be able to devote most of bandwidth to that HighID user, but it's not so simple with the controls that are available. In general he tends to get more B/W anyway, becasue the HighID is a more reliable connection.
Actually you can already, between friendslots and a Mod with powershare. At least one of the Mods even lets you set the upload speed for slots, and the client opens slots as necessary to make sure that the bandwidth gets used.
I just don't see the necessity. They already have access to way more sources and as you pointed out, a more reliable connection.

View Postdavexnet, on 15 May 2022 - 05:33 PM, said:

What is the technical reason HighID is not available to you?
Simple, not my connection. Too many health problems, haven't worked in over 2 years now. But I live in a liberal city with a liberal library that not only provides hotspots, but doesn't block or throttle file-sharing.
Go figure. And bless them, one and all. :thumbup: :worthy:
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