Official eMule-Board: Transfer Credit - Official eMule-Board

Jump to content


Page 1 of 1

Transfer Credit Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Mig92 

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 22-January 19

Posted 22 January 2019 - 08:03 PM

I don't mind sharing, but waiting to complete downloads for days or weeks while I have uploaded 20TB and downloaded “only” 2 is frustrating. I know the “smart” strategy is to unshare everything except the files I am downloading, but I'm not THAT selfish.
The issue I have comes in part because I upload to client A and download from client B. To put my selfishness on the table: I would benefit if I could transfer credit from A to B. I understand concerns for TFT and the anti trading sentiment on this forum. However, I would challenge anyone to explain why uploading to A and downloading from B is trading.
The basic concept of a payment channel in crypocurrencies is that clients who don't know each other can transfer credit through a chain of intermediaries, where everybody only trusts and deals with their neighbors. In crypotcurrencies this trust between neighbours is enforced by what are called smart contracts.
I don't propose building blockchains and lightning networks, allthough I have to admit this was the starting point of my line of reasoning. My current line of thought is developed through process of elimination.
In essence I realized that we have a quantifiable means of knowing to what extent we can trust the clients we know. We already log it in the credit file. The easy algorithm to quantify the amount of trust we have in a client is 2*(ul-dl), but we can get more fancy, if we want. Our equivalent of a payment channel is asking people who “owe” us if our source “owes” them. And inversely, if someone enters our waiting list, we can ask the people we “owe”, if they happen to “owe” that client. By extension they can also pass on the question.
If the answer is yes we can transfer as much credit as we trust through the channel, and be on our merry ways.
Imagine the situation:
A has uploaded to B, who has uploaded to C, who has uploaded to D.
A now enters the waiting list of D. No credit here. However D is willing to upload to C,who is willing to upload to B,who is willing to upload to A. I think we can all agree routing the actual parts from D to C to B to A is not the most efficient use of bandwith, so I propose D upload to A and all clients update their credit files as if they had routed the amount of parts. In essence that is all.

We need some sensible precautions with respect to confirmation of the transaction. Everything else is efficiency of programming. We can borrow handsomely from path finding and tree searching wisdom to design an efficient implementation. We can supply credit partwise, or differentiate between max allowed credit and actual use of credits.
0

#2 User is offline   pier4r 

  • Ex falso quodlibet ; Kad is the major concept behind emule.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 586
  • Joined: 31-March 09

Posted 28 August 2019 - 10:58 AM

View PostMig92, on 22 January 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

I don't mind sharing, but waiting to complete downloads for days or weeks while I have uploaded 20TB and downloaded "only" 2 is frustrating. I know the "smart" strategy is to unshare everything except the files I am downloading, but I'm not THAT selfish.


Well, the request was done multiple times over time. Really a lot of times and I can understand what you mean.

Emule is a bit like "give, and one day will get back". It is not TFT (although in 2011/2012 I implemented a variation of emule ZZUL TRA with a bit of that).

The "share the credit" problem is not so simple to solve. Indeed one huge contribution from bitcoin is exactly the blockchain. That solves the problem but it is really heavy on the client. Even keeping only IDs of users active in the last month, and pruning anything else, it would be quite space intensive. Add to this that the dev scene for emule shrank a lot in the last years, and you get a little.

Not even bittorrent has credit, rather it focus on the current files. You can achieve the same either, as you said, sharing only what you want to get (but then the file availability dies), or keeping every other file at ultra low priority and those that you are sharing at the highest priority. In that way you achieve a similar result without removing your files from the network (that is a bit better).

Or, since you have uploaded 20 TB, you don't mind to wait. For me p2p is "if I need a file immediately, I buy it otherwise I wait". Sometimes I wait a year before getting something, but it is really rewarding.

Especially for niche interests, it is a patience game. Consider that with torrent you don't have such content to begin with, exactly because torrent is laser focused on few files at once, thus the nice file disappear unless there is a community behind them.
>>> My wiki (ITA) on emule >>>Feature Request (ICS) or SOTN, ClientAnalyzer(fixing fastXs and reask punishment),, EmuleCollectionV2 >>> Emule on old hardware (intel pentium 2 or 3 - via c3 - and so on) with good OS settings and enough ram (256+ mb): great >>>user of: eMule - Xtreme - ZZUL bastard - SharX - SharkX 1.8b5 pierQR - ZZUL-Tra - ZZUL-Tra-TL - kMule - Beba

Extended signature: click.
0

#3 User is offline   PhilGenesis 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 02-November 19

Posted 06 November 2019 - 11:10 AM

@pier4r "Consider that with torrent you don't have such content to begin with" : you have MUCH more content on torrents, even with niche files. You just have to be on the good private tracker.
I love emule but with less than 200 000 users you can't have the same library that other networks used by millions.
0

#4 User is offline   Campo 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 50
  • Joined: 18-June 19

Posted 06 November 2019 - 05:06 PM

i have to use emule for it. Iam searching of course for torrents on the special tracker first (after i couldnt get the file or torrent over the fansub group). but if it is older than 2 years, chance drop extremely. i dont think i need to tell you, what the chances are with over 10 year old files or 20 years. sometimes its just 1 group that had released a subtitle. even the raw file in japanese isnt always avaible with 1 source.

Since a lot people didnt use emule anymore, these files are nearly lost. The private tracker are trying to get the hands on such projects, but arent successfull.

Best example is my internet situation, my ISP give me just a tunneled IP for ipv4. so no high id possible (and didnt used emule at all).after years i had found a vpn service, which could gave me a high id. as soon as i was online with high id, the uploads startet. the queue got over 1000 within 4 hours. the connection speed was 256kilobytes/sec. then the vpn service didnt work anymore... i tried something else without success. then, this yeaer i found airvpn and i managed to configure the ports = high id again. even now after 15 minutes, i get some uplaods already. my speed is now limited at 2100kilobytes/sec and still there are people who get the files from me. of course i know now a lot of the nicknames with their upload/download from/to me. i have gathered a lot of credits, which will never have files, i want. but i there appears a source, the chances that iam first, is exremly high (its good for all, because the other will get it some minutes later from me.

as i said, some people are appearing a lot in the list. even with new stuff, which i got over torrent. so these guys are just using emule. but there are also guys, who are uplaod to me if i find some old stuff and start to test the download. i then think "maybe that or this guy may have it".

so tahts my short story, why i cant stop using the ed2k/kad network. theres no other chance, in a lot of cases, to get that file.

PS: i use morph at the moment with the best possible detection for bad behavior. anybody who have a normal confogiration can get as much as they want, but the "banned" number gets to 10 very fast after programm start. i think they only geht some megabytes until the ban strikes^^ iam for fair use. there are also people who seem to have very slow connections. theres a guy with over 20gbytes from me with only 5-6kilobytes :D he even helped me on some files, slow with 3kilobytes, but hey^^ i got it complete :D
0

#5 User is offline   Andu 

  • Morph Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13015
  • Joined: 04-December 02

Posted 09 November 2020 - 01:20 AM

In the past this was also a technological challenge. I wonder if blockchains could resolve the technical issues we faced in the past. After all a distributed ledger is exactly what you want for this kind of system.
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.


Dark Lord of the Forum


Morph your Mule

Need a little help with your MorphXT? Click here

0

#6 User is offline   emule_user_downunder 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: 20-March 04

Posted 16 November 2020 - 04:21 PM

You want a distributed PERMANENT, NON-DELETEABLE record of your anonymous file-sharing?
Not me thanks!

0

#7 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5754
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 16 November 2020 - 04:53 PM

View Postemule_user_downunder, on 16 November 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:

You want a distributed PERMANENT, NON-DELETEABLE record of your anonymous file-sharing?
Not me thanks!

N'ah, it would be quite sufficient to have the sender and the recipient to agree on what amount of good data was transferred and put that in a block chain. Possibly one would actually need a couple of third parties to decide if the information matches and they all share the same information. From that trusted information it would be possible for anyone in the network with access to the blockchain to calculate how positive a client is behaving and push his advance in the queue accordingly.

I see two major downsides:
  • To the best of my knowledge blockchains grow indefinitely which will put a burden on every network client in the long term, especially because we need to be precise to the byte.
  • The network, to me, appears fast and small to the point that the benefit to be gained is negligible. Hence, I don't think it's worth all the hassle.


Am I missing something?

PS: Also, I am not a fan of blockchains because their hyping for any ridiculous application (such as storing manufacturing equipment sensor data) pretty much just burnt the entire concept crisp for me.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#8 User is offline   emule_user_downunder 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: 20-March 04

Posted 16 November 2020 - 10:49 PM

Data has a right to die.
Blockchain is forever.
I agree with both your points.
The days of fighting for priority and bandwidth are probably not so much of an issue any more. Patience seems to be the issue.
Isn't blocking nodes sending bad data already happening?

0

#9 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5754
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 17 November 2020 - 07:01 AM

View Postemule_user_downunder, on 16 November 2020 - 10:49 PM, said:

Isn't blocking nodes sending bad data already happening?

I guess it is but the point was that data might become corrupted and thus unusable to the recipient. No point in acknowledging bad data as "credits".
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#10 User is offline   Andu 

  • Morph Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13015
  • Joined: 04-December 02

Posted 21 November 2020 - 04:54 PM

I'm not saying this is necessarily the smartest solution or that there aren't ways to actually improve on the basic idea. Just saying there is a tech out there now for a distributed ledger and that is all that blockchain really is. If you ignore all the hype and the buzzwords and break it down to the core of the tech that's what it does. Maybe one could add expiry dates to the credit you store in the blockchain.

If talking about these kinds of technological solutions I think it's important to forget what retarded stuff other people are doing with the tech and focus on what it is actually good for then decide from there if it fits the application.

Even though the network is smaller I have even now seen people asking for ways to cap upload to 10kb/s while having unlimited dl. A system that encourages opening up the ul pipe won't hurt.

If you are downloading copyrighted stuff it will not help you that you only uploaded at 10kb/s anyway. Just get a VPN and learn live with the LowID.

Maybe you are right though Stulle. It might be smarter to focus efforts on finding a more efficient way of using LowID clients behind VPNs rather an encouraging uploads. Ever since the beginning of eMule the LowID clients were often those with the largest upload pipes. Unlocking their full potential might give the network access to much more bandwidth than getting the 10kb/s clients to raise their upload a bit.

This post has been edited by Andu: 21 November 2020 - 04:55 PM

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.


Dark Lord of the Forum


Morph your Mule

Need a little help with your MorphXT? Click here

1

#11 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5754
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 22 November 2020 - 07:07 PM

Fair and true. Let's see where it's going to take us. :-)
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

  • Member Options

Page 1 of 1

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users