Official eMule-Board: 28/04/2010 - Emule V0.50A - Tombstone Xtended V1.0 - Official eMule-Board

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28/04/2010 - Emule V0.50A - Tombstone Xtended V1.0 Releaser variant of TS 2.1

#21 User is offline   Ejack79 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:04 AM

But I do think HideOS is useful for the first releaser.
In a healthy network, it should work fine. Distributing chunks is always more effective than distributing the whole file.
It could be damaged by those who PREVIEW only. The first chunk and the last chunk are always 'overshared'.
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#22 User is offline   sonoro 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:40 AM

@Ejack79

But they can get the same parts of these other sources, or wait a while to send the releaser

@omeringen

thanks for your support and to @Stulle

This post has been edited by sonoro: 01 May 2010 - 08:40 AM

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#23 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 04:37 PM

Ejack79: the problem is not that HideOS is hiding chunks in general. the major problem is that it's hiding them without much sense. SOTN, however, does. now, it might pose no problem to a healthy network but it's not entirely benefiting it much with its rather dumb algorithm either.

sonoro: my name is Stulle and you could see that if you just cared to read. i am not calling you "Automatic Translator dude" or something either so you should rather not do anything like that with me.
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#24 User is offline   taz-me 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:06 AM

Not that I'm revealing any new stuff, however :

ICS means faster end of game for all (downloader using mod with ICS is speeding up his own complete download as well as helping others that download from him by causing better chunk distribution). ICS is not related to releasers (full sources).

SOTN / HideOS (surely if used by full sources) might cause ICS or any improved chunk selection to fail - this is why I think their implementation is wrong for the long run (old versions of mods that contain these features will still be around long after (if) official will have improved chunk selection).

I'm not that familiar with SOTN code, however if implemented in a way that it won't hide chunks from ICS using clients (those can be identified via tags exchange / protocol) - adding it might prove worthy (assuming that official chunk selection will stay as is or changed to ICS - otherwise we're at square one).

One personal comment though - I think it's a bit silly to discuss / offer changes to a certain mod(s) if those changes are depending on official code changes (unless the modder and / or the change suggester are aware of planned official code changes or an official team member is joining the discussion).
P2P is about sharing, ed2k is my choice !
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#25 User is offline   James R. Bath 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 06:09 PM

View PostStulle, on 29 April 2010 - 09:59 AM, said:

as long as the majority uses official and they don't do nothing about the chunk selection SOTN is basically the best we can do. but you are right, it still is rather a hack than a real solution to the apparent problem. and yeah, HOS is not too smart although i don't know if it should really be forbidden. would not mind if it was, though.

Huge disagreement. As an active Morph user for several years, I can tell you that even with Morph's features and the majority of clients still reporting as "official", Morph still had a hard time selecting the rarest chunks, and that's without even considering the problems it had dealing with clients falsely claiming to have chunks. Both SOTN and HOS are essentially useless, confusing extras at their very best, which makes them just wastes of memory, code, processing cycles, and everybody's time, at best.
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#26 User is offline   James R. Bath 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 06:32 PM

View PosttHeWiZaRdOfDoS, on 28 April 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

This version includes the ClientAnalyzer 1.5, VQB fullchunk system and modstring support but also offers some releaser features (PowerShare, SlotFocus and a SessionRatio) as well as the first mod ever a built-in ScamWarning link.

Because they are the essential point of using this mod, please enable CA and SlotFocus by default in future versions. CA hides in extended settings and SF can only be found if you happen to right click on an uploading user, and then you're not sure whether you've implemented some sort of user specific SF or general SF.

Outside of that, everything is working well. I'd choose ICS (if that's not already inherited in VQB), Payback First, and List All Requested Files (context menu for users) as the next features to add. A longer version of requests is already known as Beba.
Currently recommending and using: eMule beba 2.63
For slot control only, currently recommending: Tombstone Xtended 1.0 (or higher) if you absolutely must have slot control


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#27 User is offline   omeringen 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:30 PM

Ok, let's continue at this(click) topic about part choosing issue.
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#28 User is offline   taz-me 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:32 PM

View PostJames R. Bath, on 08 May 2010 - 09:09 PM, said:

Morph still had a hard time selecting the rarest chunks


2 short ones :

1. SOTN is about others selecting chunks, so if a mod implements it or not is not related to it's own selection of chunks.
2. (even though this thread is not about MorphXT) : if I'm not mistaken, as long as one selects to download preview chunks first on MorphXT - ICS is bypassed until preview chunks are acquired (in other words - ICS should not be "judged" by MorphXT users unless download preview chunks first is off).

This post has been edited by taz-me: 08 May 2010 - 07:33 PM

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#29 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 09:59 AM

and the file is rare. if the file is well distributed ICS is not used and we rely on the official chunk selection, which should cover the majority of cases.
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#30 User is offline   James R. Bath 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:30 AM

View Posttaz-me, on 08 May 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

1. SOTN is about others selecting chunks, so if a mod implements it or not is not related to it's own selection of chunks.

If "others" are the ones sharing the files you want, you select based on the information the "others" provide, so it is related. In that case, it's harmful, providing misinformation. If "others" are not, then SOTN is not used, which makes it irrelevant. So, we have a choice of harmful misinformation or irrelevant.

View Posttaz-me, on 08 May 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

2. (even though this thread is not about MorphXT) : if I'm not mistaken, as long as one selects to download preview chunks first on MorphXT - ICS is bypassed until preview chunks are acquired (in other words - ICS should not be "judged" by MorphXT users unless download preview chunks first is off).

Both true and horribly false and misleading.
1. If the preview chunk has already been DL'd, then ICS is not bypassed and if the rare chunks are still not being DL'd, then there's either misinformation being shared about the chunks available or the chunk selection routine is bugged. If you want to argue ICS specifically, please take omeringen's advice. I'm not arguing against ICS. I'm arguing against SOTN and HOS based on what happens in reality under actual use.
2. Preview determines only the first chunk requested and does not require the requested client to send it, meaning the requested client can opt to send the rarest or any other chunk (they may only have certain chunks and neither the preview or rarest) it so desires (note, this is what happens in reality, keep that in mind). With SOTN or HOS turned on, every client is misled as to what the rarest chunk is regardless of whether a preview chunk is selected, so you may as well get the preview chunk to see if it's at least the file you want.
3. As the preview request is only momentary until it is being received, whatever technique that gets used to request the remaining chunks is then open to request the rarest chunk. Those requests are based on the information the sharers provide. If SOTN, HOS, etc. are in use, that information is inaccurate. You may as well be sharing on a network of fakers.
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#31 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:05 PM

you are summing up what wiz and i were talking about. this is why HOS is so bad, it is hiding blindly and without consideration of the network situation. SOTN is also providing misinformation but in a way that relies on the current network status. however, until the request mechanisms for the majority of the network are changing - which would be official clients - it is about the only thing we can do.
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#32 User is offline   taz-me 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 05:09 AM

SOTN might be useful for clients with current official chunk selection - however it misleads clients using other chunk selections (such as ICS). This is even more accurate if SOTN is used by sources (ones sharing a file which they were it's 1'st full sources) - since then even Anti HideOS won't help.

No one, but official devs can make a claim about future changes (if at all) regarding official client chunks selection method. Since clients seems to stay around for ages, new versions of clients with SOTN might turn out to be sort of a "time bomb" if official chunk selection will change (unless SOTN is off by default and one is assuming that anyone turning it on is aware of official client chunk selection implementation)...

Altered SOTN (which won't hide chunks from ICS using clients) might be worth thinking of (assuming that if official chunk selection will change, it will use ICS handshake).

Edited : perhaps a separate / dedicated thread for chunks selection and exposure is more suitable for this discussion.

This post has been edited by taz-me: 11 May 2010 - 05:13 AM

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#33 User is offline   omeringen 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 06:03 AM

View Posttaz-me, on 11 May 2010 - 08:09 AM, said:

(. . .)

Edited : perhaps a separate / dedicated thread for chunks selection and exposure is more suitable for this discussion.


View Postomeringen, on 08 May 2010 - 10:30 PM, said:

Ok, let's continue at this(click) topic about part choosing issue.

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#34 User is offline   James R. Bath 

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 05:57 PM

Back to Xtended feature requests, some Xtended ClientAnalyzer stats I would like:
  • Uploaded data to skulls
  • Downloaded data from skulls
  • UL/DL from non-skulls
  • Average skull upload Waited time
  • Average non-skull upload Waited time

Along with a session/cumulative breakout.

This post has been edited by James R. Bath: 16 May 2010 - 05:58 PM

Currently recommending and using: eMule beba 2.63
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#35 User is offline   tHeWiZaRdOfDoS 

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:58 PM

Well, I don't intend to add more stats and especially not just for "bad" clients... upload/download might be worth a look but the others... no :angelnot:
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#36 User is offline   dylandog84 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:39 PM

Hi wiz, is Powershare available only for complete files?
With old Rajil mod (that includes Wizard's PS) i can enable PS for incomplete files... and then session ratio reduces my "bad behavior". :-k

Thanks in advance. :flowers:

This post has been edited by dylandog84: 17 May 2010 - 12:40 PM

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#37 User is offline   tHeWiZaRdOfDoS 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:57 PM

Yes it is... I *could* change this, though... I thought about it but I wanted to save me from creating PS transfer stats :angelnot:
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#38 User is offline   dylandog84 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:03 PM

Why have you introduced 1:3 ratio?
There isn't bad behaviors that i could enable... :-k
Thank you for your fast reply. :respect:

PS: I don't know if this is a bug, but when i enable Slotfocus and then i close eMule, after restart i find the feature disabled again... :confused:

This post has been edited by dylandog84: 17 May 2010 - 01:28 PM

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#39 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:37 PM

i advised Wiz to introduce that ratio because slotfocus together with friendslot allows the user to focus all the bandwidth on a single user. this would then block out any other client which is bad. thus should a 1:3 ratio be used opposed to no ratio or some pointless 1:7 ratio.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 17 May 2010 - 01:38 PM

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#40 User is offline   dylandog84 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:45 PM

Thank you Stulle for your exhaustive explanation. :)
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