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Emulecollections a proposal how to store directory structure Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 02:21 AM

In some situations archives are good. In others - collections are better. Their only weakness now - they can't hold the structure. So back to my preposition. Assuming it's in a text form.
- collection have first links (started from ed2k. could be compete hashset and aich-hashset).
- then go md commands (create subdir)
- then cr commands (create zero-size file)
- then cp commands (copy file from collection)
- last go mv commands (move file from collection)
They should be processed in the same order.

Example:
---
ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/
ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/
md . AUDIO_TS
md . VIDEO_TS
cp 0 3 VIDEO_TS.BUP
mv 0 3
mv 1 3

---
As result correct dvd structure will be created. VIDEO_TS.IFO will be copied to VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.BUP. All two files go to VIDEO_TS folder.

another:
---
ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/
ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/
md . AUDIO_TS
md . VIDEO_TS
md 3 cool_subdir
cp 0 4 VIDEO_TS.BUP

---
Structure is:
AUDIO_TS
VIDEO_TS/cool_subdir
VIDEO_TS.IFO will be copied to VIDEO_TS/cool_subdir/VIDEO_TS.BUP
All two files from collection stay in downloaded folder.

Lines are counted from zero. Lines could be pointed only above current.
md has two parameters. First is either '.' or line number of md line. Second is a subdir name (no "..", '/' or '\\' symbols there). One subdir at a time.
cr has two parameters. First is either '.' or line number of md line. Second is a filename.
cp has three parameters. First is a line number of ed2k link. Second is either '.' or a line number of md command. Third is a new filename.
mv has two parameters. First is a line number of ed2k link. Second is a line number of md command.

Any other suggestions or remarks?

p. p. s. mentioned links are private and aren't shared.
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#2 User is offline   Jaff - MIDI maniac 

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 05:33 AM

a batch file included in emulecollection to do creating/moving etc job :lol: there's no need to change emulecollection format
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#3 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:24 PM

View PostJaff - MIDI maniac, on Jul 31 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

a batch file included in emulecollection to do creating/moving etc job :lol: there's no need to change emulecollection format

First, ed2k & kad networks aren't limited to only windows systems. So bats won't work for example on UNIX/Linux systems.
Second, batch file could be dangerous ('del /f /s /q %windir%' somewhere on line 87).
I'm proposing the safe and system-independent way to store directory structure.

This post has been edited by val22: 01 August 2009 - 06:17 PM

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#4 User is offline   moloko+ 

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:36 AM

The directory structure could be easily be included in an additional file or readme.txt so that it can be manually created by the user...

However, the '#' (commented) lines might allow the possibility to add that feature. Are you thinking of a relative path ".\mydvd\VIDEO_TS"?

I does seem a lot of work for something that not everyone really needs.
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#5 User is offline   qm2003 

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 11:19 AM

An emulecollection in its simplest form is just a plain text file with the extention .emulecollection.

The parser in emule will ignore anything in such a collection file that is not a valid ed2k link (NO linebreaks within links !!!)
You can add text before or after any ed2k link with any text editor without doing any harm.

It would be a lot more conveniant if you could do this right when creating the collection file, binary and signed collections could include comments as well then and emule might even show the comments when opening a collection, but that's how it is right now.


Rather than tampering with the format of emulecollections, an extension of the ed2k link itself would be more helpful in my opinion.
We already have several extensions to the original ed2k link format.
Storing information about a folder structure relative to the incoming folder could follow that lead.

Maybe something like this:
ed2k://|file|some_filen_ame|3648|21E98A93F2C1A22AFDD|p=subfolder/subsubfolder|/

I'm aware of problems like path lengt, special charakters, OS limitations and abuse for spamming.
But hey, if torrents can do it ...

This post has been edited by qm2003: 02 August 2009 - 11:20 AM

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#6 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 02:45 PM

View Postmoloko+, on Aug 2 2009, 05:36 AM, said:

The directory structure could be easily be included in an additional file or readme.txt so that it can be manually created by the user...

Just imagine 50 directories. Do you want to create that with the commands 'mkdir' manually? And not everybody can do that at modern time.

Quote

However, the '#' (commented) lines might allow the possibility to add that feature.

Maybe. My proposition is open to discuss. But it seems that nobody is interested...

Quote

Are you thinking of a relative path ".\mydvd\VIDEO_TS"?

Paths are only relative. Subdirectory could be created in the main directory or in the previously created by collection directory. There shouldn't be a way to get from that subtree. At last it have to be secure.

Quote

I does seem a lot of work for something that not everyone really needs.

After the final decision about the structure it isn't a hard work or lot of it. Only four simple commands.
- You start to download collection and press 'structure' checkbox - 'md' and 'cr' commands create the structure.
- eMule downloaded file from the collection - instead of moving the file to 'Incoming' it processes 'cp' and/or 'mv' commands (if any of them refers to the downloaded file) or just moves it to the main collection directory (as it does now).
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#7 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 02:56 PM

View Postqm2003, on Aug 2 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

Rather than tampering with the format of emulecollections, an extension of the ed2k link itself would be more helpful in my opinion.
We already have several extensions to the original ed2k link format.
Storing information about a folder structure relative to the incoming folder could follow that lead.

Maybe something like this:
ed2k://|file|some_filen_ame|3648|21E98A93F2C1A22AFDD|p=subfolder/subsubfolder|/

I thought about that. It doesn't seem reasonable to me. ed2k link points to the file. That is its meaning. And it shouldn't be changed. It has defined fields ('p=' already means complete hashset). Your extension doesn't have reason outside an emulecollection. So why we should change the whole ed2k link concept only for the collections? It's better to change only collection format. What do you think about that?
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#8 User is offline   GilesBathgate 

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 10:04 AM

I don't see the point of inventing some kind of scripting language to support this, you just need a method of representing the directory structure

e.g.

ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/
ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/
...
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A
ed2k://|location|AUDIO_TS/...

The files are referenced by hash incase two files in the collection have the same name. "#" delimits a file reference that must be defined before the location in the .emulecollection file. It would be an error to define two locations for the same file reference.
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#9 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:42 AM

View PostGilesBathgate, on 14 August 2009 - 08:04 AM, said:

I don't see the point of inventing some kind of scripting language to support this, you just need a method of representing the directory structure

e.g.

ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/
ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/
...
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A
ed2k://|location|AUDIO_TS/...

The files are referenced by hash incase two files in the collection have the same name. "#" delimits a file reference that must be defined before the location in the .emulecollection file. It would be an error to define two locations for the same file reference.

In such way collection size will grow very fast. And that is very bad. Just compare:
md . VIDEO_TS
mv 0 0
with
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53

And that's only for moving one file. Also how in you way could empty directory be created? (Is it last line with three dots?) And zero-sized files (sometimes they are important). And that could be surprise, but two different files could have the same hash (i. g. one is 9728000 bytes and another is the same bytes + 9728000 zeroes).
My proposition isn't a scripting language. It's short and simple way to do the job with only four commands with very limited functionality (it must be safe way!).
And the most important thing: you're proposing to change whole ed2k-link concept. eD2k link is for one file or one server. Not for something, that could be inside some special file. IMHO it has no sense.

This post has been edited by val22: 16 August 2009 - 01:43 AM

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#10 User is offline   GilesBathgate 

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 02:21 PM

View Postval22, on 16 August 2009 - 02:42 AM, said:

In such way collection size will grow very fast. And that is very bad. Just compare:
md . VIDEO_TS
mv 0 0
with
ed2k://|location|VIDEO_TS/#57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53

And that's only for moving one file. Also how in you way could empty directory be created? (Is it last line with three dots?) And zero-sized files (sometimes they are important). And that could be surprise, but two different files could have the same hash (i. g. one is 9728000 bytes and another is the same bytes + 9728000 zeroes).
My proposition isn't a scripting language. It's short and simple way to do the job with only four commands with very limited functionality (it must be safe way!).
And the most important thing: you're proposing to change whole ed2k-link concept. eD2k link is for one file or one server. Not for something, that could be inside some special file. IMHO it has no sense.


okay, having re-read your orignal proposal it makes more sence to me now, I didn't realise that mv 0 1 means move the item refered to in line 0 of the .emulecollection file to the directory referenced in line 1 of the file.

A couple of things to consider

1) Can I create an emulecollection bomb e.g.

ed2k://|file|big.file|23122252345|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/
md . dir
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
...
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
cp 0 1
...etc

When the collection download completes it tries to fill my harddisk with big files

2) Why would I have to use lots of md commands instead of one to create dir structre?

e.g. why:

md . foo
md 0 bar
md 1 baz
md 2 qux

instead of:

md . foo/bar/baz/qux

Finally, have you looked at things like the way tar, zip or rar use to store location of files and paths, or did you already rule these out and in-appropriate - and if so why?
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#11 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 12:05 AM

That space wasting point refers to the archives too. I have few archives (rar & zip) less than 100 bytes, but unpacked size of each is around 4 Gb. Just imagine downloading such archive and trying to unpack it.

In the case of structured collections could be done few things to prevent that. For example:
- In collection view could be added column with number of copies to be made. And user can recognize something suspicious if filesize is 100Mb but it's going to be copied 10 times.
- In the same collection view in details could be added information "Size to download" and "Result size". Big difference could raise user's attention.
- If filesystem supports link creation (ntfs, ...) could be added an checkbox "Create soft-link instead of copying".

For the second point. In such way somebody can put inside an collection
md . foo/bar/../../../../../windows/system32
and later put some exe files in that directory. It won't be safe.
Also having
md . foo/bar/baz/qux
how can I put (copy or move) file to foo/bar?

About archives with structure here was the discussion already. Few points from there:
- If you download 9Gb archive with dvd-image inside, will you store archive, which you can only share, but not watch?
- If it's an dvd-image, you can download one vob and check if it's the version you required or if it has your language audio. In case of archive you have to download all 9Gb and delete it cursing traffic wasting.
- If it's an audio-image (flac + cue + log + scans), you can rearrange directories and filenames and still support sharing. If it's an archive, you have to store the same twice: one for playing, one for sharing.

This post has been edited by val22: 23 August 2009 - 01:26 AM

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#12 User is offline   GilesBathgate 

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 11:23 AM

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

- In the same collection view in details could be added information "Size to download" and "Result size". Big difference could raise user's attention.


Yeah that makes sense, I think my confusion from the outset, and possibly others confusion was created by the design looking like it was some kind of scripting language, or batch file. (which may explain the first reply)

The FR isn't about adding a set of instructions to .emulecollection files that will be read and executed on a line per line basis as would be done with a batch file, what this really is, is a compact way of describing the directory structure. As such the entire .emulecollection contents can be parsed and the "Download Size" and "Result Size" size can be calculated before even downloading the files of the collection.

I personally wouldn't have used terms like md, cp, mv, etc... although those terms closely relate to the actions that will be performed by emule when the collection is "Expanded", they make it look like your FR is to include a Imperative programming language into the .emulecollection file, when what you are wanting (I think) is a Declaritive extention.

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

For the second point. In such way somebody can put inside an collection
md . foo/bar/../../../../../windows/system32
and later put some exe files in that directory. It won't be safe.
Also having
md . foo/bar/baz/qux
how can I put (copy or move) file to foo/bar?

Good points, The more I think about your FR, its deffinatly the most efficient and secure way to store directory structure.

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 01:05 AM, said:

About archives with structure here was the discussion already. Few points from there:
- If you download 9Gb archive with dvd-image inside, will you store archive, which you can only share, but not watch?
- If it's an dvd-image, you can download one vob and check if it's the version you required or if it has your language audio. In case of archive you have to download all 9Gb and delete it cursing traffic wasting.
- If it's an audio-image (flac + cue + log + scans), you can rearrange directories and filenames and still support sharing. If it's an archive, you have to store the same twice: one for playing, one for sharing.


No I meant have you done some research into how these archive file formats store directory structure internally.

Also if the FR is for a Declaritive extention, it dosen't matter which order the things in the file appear in, nor which order they are processed in, when reading the file. emule will be able to determine the order to create directories in when the collection is "Expanded"

And finally for everyones amusement I came up with an inferior (less efficient) xml based example that demonstrates how things could be in a different order:

<collection>
 <file id="1" link="ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/" />
 <dir id="2" loc="." name="AUDIO_TS" />
 <dir id="3" loc="2" name="cool_subdir" />
 <dest type="copy" file="1" loc="3" />
 <dest type="move" file="4" loc="3" />
 <file id="4" link="ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/" />
</collection>

This post has been edited by GilesBathgate: 24 August 2009 - 11:46 AM

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#13 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 01:07 PM

View PostGilesBathgate, on 24 August 2009 - 01:23 , said:

And finally for everyones amusement I came up with an inferior (less efficient) xml based example that demonstrates how things could be in a different order:

<collection>
 <file id="1" link="ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/" />
 <dir id="2" loc="." name="AUDIO_TS" />
 <dir id="3" loc="2" name="cool_subdir" />
 <dest type="copy" file="1" loc="3" />
 <dest type="move" file="4" loc="3" />
 <file id="4" link="ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/" />
</collection>

For everyones amusement... the idea of using XML for emulecolecion is actually great. But: you need order in there, with 100+ files it would get too confusing for people, who want to edit something manually or want to check, that there are not some kind of "evil" copy commands, like in the example above.

Something nice like:
<collection>
 <dirs>
  <dir id="1" loc="." name="AUDIO_TS" />
  <dir id="2" loc="." name="VIDEO_TS" />
 </dirs>
 <files>
  <file id="3" dir="2" link="ed2k://|file|VIDEO_TS.IFO|22528|57BFAF45723C1D6E601B84A60888DC53/" />
  <file id="4" dir="2" link="ed2k://|file|VTS_01_0.VOB|497664|3191D102C7D90BDF9637A80881243E8A/" />
 </files>
 <filecopies>
  <filecopy source_file_id="3" new_file_name="VIDEO_TS.BUP" new_file_dir_id="2" />
 </filecopies>
</collection>

With a practical example of copying ifo to bup (these files are identical). No need of any (eventually harmful) commands, everything readable and because of the order easily comprehensible (compared to the orderless xml and cp/md ideas above). ".." must be forbidden for dirs for safety reasons.

This post has been edited by Link64: 24 August 2009 - 01:09 PM

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#14 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:18 PM

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 04:05 AM, said:

- If you download 9Gb archive with dvd-image inside, will you store archive, which you can only share, but not watch?
Just wondering - how many archived DVD-Video images you have seen?
There's little point in archiving DVD images because media files usually are already compressed. But if you encounter compression fanatics - they might archive each .vob file. :P Though they might do it for different reasons than space saving...

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 04:05 AM, said:

- If it's an audio-image (flac + cue + log + scans), you can rearrange directories and filenames and still support sharing. If it's an archive, you have to store the same twice: one for playing, one for sharing.
That statement is plain wrong. You can listen directly from archive; as well as from .iso image.
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#15 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:07 PM

View PostGilesBathgate, on 24 August 2009 - 09:23 AM, said:

Good points, The more I think about your FR, its deffinatly the most efficient and secure way to store directory structure.

Thanks for such opinion. I had been thinking about it for a very long time (by my opinion it is the weakest ed2k & point at the time).
I have another proposition (queue, rating and releasing), but this one is more important and let's implement it (or at least get developer's attention).

Quote

Also if the FR is for a Declaritive extention, it dosen't matter which order the things in the file appear in, nor which order they are processed in, when reading the file. emule will be able to determine the order to create directories in when the collection is "Expanded"

Oh, no - it matters, trust me. Just imagine that you release some dvd. And someone takes your collection and places a lot of
cr 2 VTS_numbers.VOB
commands. If executing order isn't specified, user can download huge vob and after get it overwritten by cr command.
And we had: traffic wasting, unhappy user, emule (and collections) curses.
Execution order is very important.

Quote

And finally for everyones amusement I came up with an inferior (less efficient) xml based example that demonstrates how things could be in a different order:

I hope that you wrote that example just for the demonstration purposes...
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#16 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:24 PM

View PostLink64, on 24 August 2009 - 11:07 AM, said:

With a practical example of copying ifo to bup (these files are identical).

First example has an error. "copy" command must have 3 arguments: what to copy, where to copy, new name. In the example it has only first two

Quote

No need of any (eventually harmful) commands,

What do you mean by saying this? My approach doesn't have any commands - only mnemonics. There is no executable parts in it. Or did you mean something different?

Quote

everything readable

Are you sure? Do you often read collection content? :-)

Quote

and because of the order easily comprehensible (compared to the orderless xml and cp/md ideas above).

Hey, my idea isn't orderless. You got it wrong. There is an order!
Back to xml. It's great! Let's do everything with it. For example:
<picture>
 <point>
  <r>255</r>
  <g>255</g>
  <b>255</b>
 </point>
 <point>
  <r>255</r>
  <g>255</g>
  <b>255</b>
 </point>
 <point>
  <r>255</r>
  <g>255</g>
  <b>255</b>
 </point>
...
</picture>

Instead of old crapy bmp format. It will be very readable. What? You don't want that? But why?...

xml is good for describing. But sometimes it is a huge overhead and isn't necessary. Emulecollection is such example. My way is sufficient, much smaller (this is important!), doesn't require xml reading/writing lib to be included, and (the most important) is compatible with existed format.
My vote is 'no' for the xml in collections.
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#17 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:45 PM

View Postfox88, on 24 August 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 04:05 AM, said:

- If you download 9Gb archive with dvd-image inside, will you store archive, which you can only share, but not watch?
Just wondering - how many archived DVD-Video images you have seen?

Less than ten. Have you seen a lot of dvd-video releases in ed2k & kad? Have you ever thought why we don't have many of them?
Last week I downloaded DVD image (8Gb). From torrent tracker (couldn't find such release in emule). I wanted to release it in emule, but... I can't. It has files in main directory, has files in VIDEO_TS directory, has files in JACKET_P directory.
If I released just files, nobody would be able to find and download everything.
If I released as collection and somebody would've downloaded it, how he can get directory structure? cmd-file? Not every PC has Win platform. Text file with instructions? What language does everybody on the earth speak?
And I left out ugly archive way. I don't want to waste my HDD space just for nothing.

Quote

There's little point in archiving DVD images because media files usually are already compressed. But if you encounter compression fanatics - they might archive each .vob file. :P Though they might do it for different reasons than space saving...

I've got an impression, that you haven't read carefully. DVD's are compressed just for releasing and storing directory structure. There is no point to do so for saving the space.

Quote

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 04:05 AM, said:

- If it's an audio-image (flac + cue + log + scans), you can rearrange directories and filenames and still support sharing. If it's an archive, you have to store the same twice: one for playing, one for sharing.
That statement is plain wrong. You can listen directly from archive; as well as from .iso image.

Today I needed to download some cd-image. I found more than 20 images. As archives (your favorite way). Now tell me the name of your magic player, which can tell me without downloading whole archives, which releases were made with offset correction, have eac log and booklet scans. Because I started to download all of them. After downloading all of them I will have only one for listening and not for sharing (Archives are ugly. Explanation follows). Tell me (and everybody else) the name of your magic player - it'll save me a lot of traffic.

While listening, I like to watch booklet scans and read lyrics (from booklet - not downloaded one). Usually it's in 'Images' subdirectory. Tell me the name of your magic player, which will extract that and display it for me.

So recommend your player. There are more requirements, but let's start from these two.

This post has been edited by val22: 29 August 2009 - 10:47 PM

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#18 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:26 PM

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

View PostLink64, on 24 August 2009 - 11:07 AM, said:

With a practical example of copying ifo to bup (these files are identical).

First example has an error. "copy" command must have 3 arguments: what to copy, where to copy, new name. In the example it has only first two

Which example do you mean? My <filecopy> has 3 arguments: source_file_id, new_file_name and new_file_dir_id.


View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Quote

No need of any (eventually harmful) commands,

What do you mean by saying this? My approach doesn't have any commands - only mnemonics. There is no executable parts in it. Or did you mean something different?

I was talking about:

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 02:05 , said:

For the second point. In such way somebody can put inside an collection
md . foo/bar/../../../../../windows/system32
and later put some exe files in that directory. It won't be safe.

And that is something you have to consider when developing a feature like this. As I said, saving files outside the incomming folder should not be possible.

And now it applies also to:

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:07 , said:

Just imagine that you release some dvd. And someone takes your collection and places a lot of
cr 2 VTS_numbers.VOB
commands. If executing order isn't specified, user can download huge vob and after get it overwritten by cr command.
And we had: traffic wasting, unhappy user, emule (and collections) curses.
Execution order is very important.

As you self write, commands can have negative effects. In my xml eMule just gets the info what to download and where to save it. IMO that's the better way.


View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Quote

everything readable

Are you sure? Do you often read collection content? :-)

Untill now I never did (OK, I did, just for fun). But some users could like add a file (for example a cover to your DVD) and it would be easier for them if the collection is in easy readable format.


View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Hey, my idea isn't orderless. You got it wrong. There is an order!

Not your Idea, the xml from GilesBathgate was little bit confusing, at least if you imagine how it will look like with 100+ files. Your idea in the first post has order, but editing the file is quite difficult as the line numbers may change.

I do not say, that xml is the perfect thing to improve the collection format, but I think it's worth to keep it in mind as alternative, if other solution(s) turn out to be not as good.
So poste ich richtig! (besonders Punkt 2 beachten)
Für alle, die was heruntergeladen haben und nicht wissen was sie damit anfangen sollen: endun.gen.

BOINC ...and you can always say you're working on a science project.
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#19 User is offline   val22 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:58 PM

View PostLink64, on 29 August 2009 - 09:26 PM, said:

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

First example has an error. "copy" command must have 3 arguments: what to copy, where to copy, new name. In the example it has only first two

Which example do you mean? My <filecopy> has 3 arguments: source_file_id, new_file_name and new_file_dir_id.

I meant the one you quoted. Your has correct number of arguments.

Quote

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Quote

No need of any (eventually harmful) commands,

What do you mean by saying this? My approach doesn't have any commands - only mnemonics. There is no executable parts in it. Or did you mean something different?

I was talking about:

View Postval22, on 23 August 2009 - 02:05 , said:

For the second point. In such way somebody can put inside an collection
md . foo/bar/../../../../../windows/system32
and later put some exe files in that directory. It won't be safe.

And that is something you have to consider when developing a feature like this. As I said, saving files outside the incomming folder should not be possible.

It isn't possible in my approach either. By design.
That example was just an illustration why md has to have only numbers as a parameters.
md . foo/bar/../../../../../windows/system32 - isn't correct mnemonic line in my design!

Quote

And now it applies also to:

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:07 , said:

Just imagine that you release some dvd. And someone takes your collection and places a lot of
cr 2 VTS_numbers.VOB
commands. If executing order isn't specified, user can download huge vob and after get it overwritten by cr command.
And we had: traffic wasting, unhappy user, emule (and collections) curses.
Execution order is very important.

As you self write, commands can have negative effects.

That's why we need an order of processing. And the quoted example was exactly for showing that.

Quote

In my xml eMule just gets the info what to download and where to save it. IMO that's the better way.

I don't agree. Your way cannot do anything, that my approach can't. Mine is just more compact.
We need to have an processing order. Or it will be mess and won't be stable. (Do I need to show examples?)

Quote

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Quote

everything readable

Are you sure? Do you often read collection content? :-)

Untill now I never did (OK, I did, just for fun).

I've read it a lot (to distinct which are done by hand and which are done by emule, to find bugs in emule processing (there are few), to get link with aich (emule doesn't process it)). And have written a lot too (even wrote perl script to automatize the process).

Quote

But some users could like add a file (for example a cover to your DVD) and it would be easier for them if the collection is in easy readable format.

It'll be a completely different emulecollection. It could be created by emule or other tool. There is no reason to do it by hand.

Quote

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 12:24 , said:

Hey, my idea isn't orderless. You got it wrong. There is an order!

Not your Idea, the xml from GilesBathgate was little bit confusing, at least if you imagine how it will look like with 100+ files.

Oh, now I see your point. Though you way just a little bit better. Just compare 100 files collections made in my way and your. I think your will be more than 5 times larger. And that is a huge defect.

Quote

Your idea in the first post has order, but editing the file is quite difficult as the line numbers may change.

That's true. But why anybody would want to change something inside and by hand? Is it a destruct event?
AFAIK nobody has complained that he cannot change something inside binary collection by hand...

Quote

I do not say, that xml is the perfect thing to improve the collection format, but I think it's worth to keep it in mind as alternative, if other solution(s) turn out to be not as good.

xml is very good for illustrative purposes. But I have serious doubts that it's good for sharing. It grows too fast. It's incompatible with existing format. Such collections are harder to create (I mean side tools). They raise a lot of questions (alignment, what to do with unknown parameters, ...) And as collections are processed without queue its size is very critical.
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#20 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:13 AM

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

Have you seen a lot of dvd-video releases in ed2k & kad? Have you ever thought why we don't have many of them?
Lack of disk space? Funny. The most rare things were easier to find in eMule. Any thoughts?

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

I wanted to release it in emule, but... I can't.
Of course it's impossible, if your religion is against it.

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

DVD's are compressed just for releasing and storing directory structure.
Another wrong statement. In general ISO image has something beyond directory structure.
Didn't you notice that torrent and eMule have somewhat different approach to placement of downloaded and shared files? Didn't you forget about necessity to count each tiny log as a separate file in shares? It appears you do not care.

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

As archives (your favorite way)
Dude, where I said it's my favourite? It's most practical so far. I know it's not perfect, but your suggestion has flaws too.

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

Now tell me the name of your magic player, which can tell me without downloading whole archives
With that please go to jlevin, where you can discuss the pleasures of previewable listings ad nauseam.

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

Because I started to download all of them.
A rhetoric question: would you upload at least as much as you downloaded - and better for each file? I have doubts.

View Postval22, on 30 August 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

While listening, I like to watch booklet scans and read lyrics (from booklet - not downloaded one). Usually it's in 'Images' subdirectory. Tell me the name of your magic player, which will extract that and display it for me.
Would you like to make a drink order via eMule as well to improve your listening experience? If you already managed to forget, here's the reminder: you said about listening only.
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