Official eMule-Board: Slotlimiter Feature Request Refusal - Official eMule-Board

Jump to content


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

Slotlimiter Feature Request Refusal Explanation

#1 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 30 November 2007 - 02:08 PM

Dear users,

despite our frequent refusals and all our statements on slotlimiters you have never bothered to quit requesting this feature. Now I will try to explain to you why we do so in as much detail as I can. I hope you will quit this topic once and for all.

First of all would I like to explain the MorphXT Upload and its principals to you. The MorphXT is a ZZ based fully dynamic system. The probably most crucial thing about it is that it is essential to have a well configured upload speed. As entering an absolute value will allow little no change in the granted upload whenever the lines bandwith is used by another application or computer. For this reason does the MorphXT allow you to maintain the upload speed for you. We are aware of problems in these mechanisms during the past, nevertheless are these the best measure to keep the upload healthy.

Everyone here should be aware of the ED2Ks principal which is "upload all = download all". Thus is the most essential aim to completly use the upload limit. If you disagree I kindly ask you to quit reading here and resort to another mod! To achieve this aim is the MorphXT upload not restricted to a certain number of slots in its basic code. Depending on the chosen slotspeed and USC speeds will the upload code open as few slots as possible. Here we ge to the most important points. Not every client in the network is able to take as much as we want to give him. If we want to give a particular client 10 kBytes/s whilest he can only take 2 kByte/s we will have 8 kByte/s that have to be used somehow different if we want to upload everything we can.

Naturally the other client will not tell us he is short on bandwith or poorly configured. Nevertheless will we realise the other client is slow and we do this due to the delay of packets confirming the transmition of the packets. If he is reacting slow his busy rate will increase as his transfer rate will decrease. At this point I will explain to you why they are replying slowly. There are the following scenarios:
  • The other client has set a download limit and will not accept any more download than that.
  • The other client has already reached his download bandwith and is now throttled by his ISP or his line will simply not transfer any more than it shall.
  • The other client is uploading so much that his latency is so high that we get the impression he cannot take no more.
Scenario number three is the scenario that can also backfire on us. If we try to upload too much our latency will also increase and as a result all incoming confirmation packets are going to be delayed. At this point the code starts to think that the other client is unable to get any more download. The essential idea here is that for one reason or another a client might not get as much data as he is supposed to according to the upload system.

In order to achieve the goal despite those clients we will have to allow new clients. But there are other scenario when we need new slots.

As a part of the whole Upload Splitting Classes (USC) there are various scenarios how a new slot could be needed. Following this I will present you some always using 10 kByte/s as the given upload limit. The USC are numbered like this: 0 = friends; 1 = PBF/PS/FairPlay; 2 = rest
  • only class 2 clients present. client speed 5. one client is about to finish so he will have to be replaced by another one. if that one is connecting really slowly we will add a new one to prevent from wasting bandwith. this could go subsequently with more clients. (note that a too high set upload limit could be a reason for the slow connecting!)
  • 2 class 1 clients and 100% for class 1 allowed. slotfocus. file from client 1 set to ps disabled --> upload resorted, new client added, old client 1 probably kicked. new client 1 cannot take everything we want to give him, new client in upload slow connecting and slow transfering
  • a client is aborting is download unexpectedly or even times out and we need to refill the other client(s) who might be connecting slowly or aborting themselves

Above I already gave you examples on the results. Also imagine we add up to three slowly connecting clients in a row who (to top it off) are slowly receiving at first. These might have USS enabled and thus be able to receive (and connect) faster after they realised they are at the top of their bandwith worsening their latency.

Now, the complete upload is extremely dynamic as described above. In order to make you get a even better impression I will try to list all factors now:
  • upload limit & upload capacity of the line
  • slot speeds
  • USC speeds
  • USC percentages
  • the receiving clients
  • file configurations
  • computer timing (if the program hangs the problem might be considered to be at the remote side so we add more upload slots)

Using an Slotlimiter means to use an absolute value in an dynamic system. So it is bound to give problems. Many of these problems have already been encountered by EvolutionCrazy and despite the help he got he was not yet able to get his slotlimiter working. Firstly I need to mention the obvious flaw in the absolute slotlimiter system. Whenever we reached the slotlimit we will not grant any other upload to be established in order to achieve the most superior aim - sending at the possible maximum. As we value the networks health more than anything else will we always try to keep the code in a way it always uploads at the possible maximum, no matter what.

The more specific problems are closely related to the specifications of the MorphXT upload. If the slotlimiter allows no more than x slots he will pay no respect to the USC or anything else. This means that if anyone with 10 kBytes/s upload who wants to give 3 clients upload but only 2 kByte/s for any client will tell the upload is not working because at least one client will get more! On the other hand is the slotlimiter unable to distinguish between the various upload classes. Imagining this: 1/3 per class and slotspeed 2 with a limit of 10. That would mean 6 slots but as the user would only like to have 5 slots (10/2) and thus would a slotlimiter not match the need. Now imagine one or two of these clients can only take 1 and the others only exactly 2. Again we would waste bandwith.

As a result of this we frequently refuse to add any slotlimiter other than the current. Still this does not mean that the upload is bad. It is likely to be the environment (remote users) and your settings. Maybe you have set the upload speed too high or another program interfering or your DynUp settings are poorly chosen. Due to the complexity of the whole upload it is hard to fit all needs but be sure we do our very best. If you are dissatisfied with the upload it is not good to downgrade because other improvements are sometime not just useful but sometimes also essential. Try to alter your settings. Make them less "special" and you will still be able to get a certain degree of self control.

Whenever you notice a problem give a most detailed report and do not whine how very bad it works. We do test the code before a release is published but it is unlikely for us to match any need in these tests. After you started testing do not wait just a few minutes but try to see what happens when you tweak your settings. Report it to us and we might be able to do something about it. Until then do as I proposed here.

Now that I made clear the reasons and explained the upload to you I humbly expect you to drop this ongoing requesting.

Regards, Stulle
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
2

#2 User is offline   coluche 

  • hm ?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2274
  • Joined: 02-May 05

Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:15 PM

Yay! Posted Image post of the month! Posted Image Thank You for making it that clear ! Posted Image
It's Screamin' Jay Hawkins and he's a Wild Man, so bug off!
0

#3 User is offline   leuk_he 

  • MorphXT team.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5975
  • Joined: 11-August 04

Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:37 PM

PS, this is the Simplified version. :flowers:
Download the MorphXT emule mod here: eMule Morph mod

Trouble connecting to a server? Use kad and /or refresh your server list
Strange search results? Check for fake servers! Or download morph, enable obfuscated server required, and far less fake server seen.

Looking for morphXT translators. If you want to translate the morph strings please come here (you only need to be able to write, no coding required. ) Covered now: cn,pt(br),it,es_t,fr.,pl Update needed:de,nl
-Morph FAQ [English wiki]--Het grote emule topic deel 13 [Nederlands]
if you want to send a message i will tell you to open op a topic in the forum. Other forum lurkers might be helped as well.
0

#4 User is offline   Idro182 

  • Splendid Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 188
  • Joined: 01-May 06

Posted 30 November 2007 - 09:35 PM

hehe Stulle docet :worthy: :P
Official Alpha Tester
Stullemule
ScarAngel
Mephisto

"I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (Voltaire)
0

#5 User is offline   Andu 

  • Morph Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13009
  • Joined: 04-December 02

Posted 01 December 2007 - 05:36 PM

Stulle got way too much time on his hand for a team member if he can find the time to post such lengthy posts. :angelnot:

The post itself is great though :).
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.


Dark Lord of the Forum


Morph your Mule

Need a little help with your MorphXT? Click here

0

#6 User is offline   leuk_he 

  • MorphXT team.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5975
  • Joined: 11-August 04

Posted 01 December 2007 - 09:22 PM

View PostAndu, on Dec 1 2007, 06:36 PM, said:

Stulle got way too much time on his hand for a team member


I asked him to make that post (but i asked him for pictures as well) . So you cannot "blaim" him. I think it is better to teach those people where are spending time making FR than telling them once again that it it does not work that way and they are mentally challanged :respect: .
Download the MorphXT emule mod here: eMule Morph mod

Trouble connecting to a server? Use kad and /or refresh your server list
Strange search results? Check for fake servers! Or download morph, enable obfuscated server required, and far less fake server seen.

Looking for morphXT translators. If you want to translate the morph strings please come here (you only need to be able to write, no coding required. ) Covered now: cn,pt(br),it,es_t,fr.,pl Update needed:de,nl
-Morph FAQ [English wiki]--Het grote emule topic deel 13 [Nederlands]
if you want to send a message i will tell you to open op a topic in the forum. Other forum lurkers might be helped as well.
0

#7 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:35 PM

it's hard to add pictures here when you don't want to fake half a million possibilities in paint. even worse if you don't want to fake them in the actual program. if anybody has ideas for pictures i will be delighted to add them.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#8 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:18 PM

lucky we got leuk_he!

Quote

leuk_he says (21:00):
I finally figured out a picture...
leuk_he says (21:00):
http://fukung.net/im...4695/IHbAB4.jpg

This post has been edited by Stulle: 06 December 2007 - 08:21 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#9 User is offline   Andu 

  • Morph Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13009
  • Joined: 04-December 02

Posted 06 December 2007 - 11:47 PM

Leuk FTW :respect:
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.


Dark Lord of the Forum


Morph your Mule

Need a little help with your MorphXT? Click here

0

#10 User is offline   mamamia 

  • Splendid Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 165
  • Joined: 22-August 05

Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:54 AM

View PostStulle, on Dec 6 2007, 09:18 PM, said:

lucky we got leuk_he!

Quote

leuk_he says (21:00):
I finally figured out a picture...
leuk_he says (21:00):
http://fukung.net/im...4695/IHbAB4.jpg


what a wonderful explanation :respect:

GROUPIE n░ 1 ;D




Vielen Dank das Sie sich die Zeit genommen haben meinen geistigen Schwachsinn zu lesen.
0

#11 User is offline   andreinik 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 40
  • Joined: 17-April 08

Posted 23 April 2008 - 04:31 PM

Thanks for the elaborate expalation, Stulle. You said quite a lot about the Morph upload system. What about other systems (like Xtreme, Neo, ...)? (For instance, Xtreme & Xtreme-based mods offer adjustable slotspeed which is sure to limit the number of opening slots.) What system do you personally find the most effective?
0

#12 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:17 PM

View Postandreinik, on Apr 23 2008, 05:31 PM, said:

Thanks for the elaborate expalation, Stulle. You said quite a lot about the Morph upload system. What about other systems (like Xtreme, Neo, ...)? (For instance, Xtreme & Xtreme-based mods offer adjustable slotspeed which is sure to limit the number of opening slots.) What system do you personally find the most effective?

well, i dunno about neo and i won't bother to write anything like the above about the xtreme or neo upload. however, dynamic systems obviously are superior because they can handle probably ANY bad client situation in our upload. systems relying - directly or indirectly - on slots limits, like the xtreme for example, might fail. dynamic systems are designed not to fail even if there are 20 clients taking only a mere 200 bytes/s.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#13 User is offline   loverboy 

  • Magnificent Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 17-September 06

Posted 26 April 2008 - 09:44 AM

No one has yet explained why, at a certain point, we had a MorphXT version (maybe 9.something) that gave those that wanted, for example, an upload max speed per client = 19 kB/s and a global UP Bandwidth of 38 kB/s, exactly 2 slots in upload at 19 kB/s
I think that the behavior explained by Stulle was valid even at those times :confused:
0

#14 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 26 April 2008 - 10:17 AM

View Postloverboy, on Apr 26 2008, 09:44 AM, said:

No one has yet explained why, at a certain point, we had a MorphXT version (maybe 9.something) that gave those that wanted, for example, an upload max speed per client = 19 kB/s and a global UP Bandwidth of 38 kB/s, exactly 2 slots in upload at 19 kB/s
I think that the behavior explained by Stulle was valid even at those times :confused:

what is your point? the upload will not give more than we want to give them. nevertheless, will it open more slots if one client cannot take all the bandwidth for instance. we never declined that we try to minimize the upload slots but we do it dynamically rather than static.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#15 User is offline   loverboy 

  • Magnificent Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 17-September 06

Posted 26 April 2008 - 02:42 PM

The point is that, as said lot and lot of times by other guys, now "those that wanted, for example, an upload max speed per client = 19 kB/s and a global UP Bandwidth of 38 kB/s" have generally 10 open slots at 3.8 kB/s
The sum is the same but it slows the sharing of complete chunks
But I don't want to go back at discussing about it because that was done before :flowers:
0

#16 User is offline   Nissenice 

  • clippetty-clopping...
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4231
  • Joined: 05-January 06

Posted 26 April 2008 - 07:11 PM

View Postloverboy, on Nov 25 2007, 07:36 PM, said:

In 10.5 there is still the old bug that it opens too many slots... even if you tell him that, for example, "Max client datarate=19 kB/s" it keeps on opening 6-7-8 slots at 3 kB/s

View Postloverboy, on Apr 26 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

The point is that, as said lot and lot of times by other guys, now "those that wanted, for example, an upload max speed per client = 19 kB/s and a global UP Bandwidth of 38 kB/s" have generally 10 open slots at 3.8 kB/s

What will it be next time? 11?


View Postloverboy, on Apr 26 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

But I don't want to go back at discussing about it because that was done before :flowers:

I don't mind. :flowers: but this is not the proper place.

This post has been edited by Nissenice: 26 April 2008 - 07:21 PM

0

#17 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:20 PM

i dunno what's wrong with you. i explained all the factors in the first post. you however resort to a mere few values that do not represent a thing. that's exactly the problem with you people requesting that darn slotlimiter feature!

just some days ago i made my latest stullemule code run on some really fast box. the upload is limited to 300 kbyte per second. nevertheless does the slot count vary from 12 to 25 and the slot speeds from 100+ kbyte/s to 300 bytes/s just because people are not capable of taking what we want to give them.

to come back to your example, there is no way we could possibly have only two slots if neither the first nor the second slot can take the full 19 kbyte/s. if they can and following slots can't we need more slots. that's what the first post is all about. so next time before you start posting those things think. even though you said you did not want to discuss, you were in fact provoking a discussion just with some poorly considered set of claims. if you do not wish to discuss shut it. if you however wish to discuss consider first!
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#18 User is offline   andreinik 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 40
  • Joined: 17-April 08

Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:00 AM

View PostStulle, on Apr 24 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

dynamic systems obviously are superior because they can handle probably ANY bad client situation in our upload. systems relying - directly or indirectly - on slots limits, like the xtreme for example, might fail. dynamic systems are designed not to fail even if there are 20 clients taking only a mere 200 bytes/s.


What "handling" are you talking about? I have tried 6 mods, and none of them could avoid huge upload speed drops from time to time. Also, you say it's impossible to have only x slots; then why is it possible for Neo that seems to choose the fastest clients in the queue and keep all the rest (blocking ones) as trickles? I don't know, maybe it's leeching behaviour, but after all it's the clients' fault not ours that they are blocking :)

This post has been edited by andreinik: 27 April 2008 - 05:12 AM

1

#19 User is offline   Stulle 

  • [Enter Mod] Dev
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5738
  • Joined: 07-April 04

Posted 27 April 2008 - 07:14 AM

View Postandreinik, on Apr 27 2008, 05:00 AM, said:

View PostStulle, on Apr 24 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

dynamic systems obviously are superior because they can handle probably ANY bad client situation in our upload. systems relying - directly or indirectly - on slots limits, like the xtreme for example, might fail. dynamic systems are designed not to fail even if there are 20 clients taking only a mere 200 bytes/s.


What "handling" are you talking about? I have tried 6 mods, and none of them could avoid huge upload speed drops from time to time. Also, you say it's impossible to have only x slots; then why is it possible for Neo that seems to choose the fastest clients in the queue and keep all the rest (blocking ones) as trickles? I don't know, maybe it's leeching behaviour, but after all it's the clients' fault not ours that they are blocking :)

yes, exactly, at times. but those are pretty short. unlike a slotlimiter who would not be able to open more slots when such a drop in is happening.

what the heck does a slotlimiter have to do with the neo who searches the fastes client from the queue? nothing! emule's got a queue and we keep using it for obvious reason.

frankly, i am growing considerably tired of you. don't nag me or us with useless questions and comparisons we don't want! i was under the impression that you understood what i posted in the mephisto thread and this thread. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT LEAVE IT!
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
0

#20 User is offline   andreinik 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 40
  • Joined: 17-April 08

Posted 27 April 2008 - 08:23 AM

You are right, it seems I confused "slotlimiter" with "slotfocus".

As for comparisons that you "don't want"... well, I think you shouldn't avoid any comparisons, you actually should want them if you wish to be proud of your product or make it better in the future. It's me who must be surprised that you don't thank me for my feedback that would possibly help you to improve your mods someday.
0

  • Member Options

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users