Official eMule-Board: Webcache - Still Needed / Used / Worth To Keep ? - Official eMule-Board

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Webcache - Still Needed / Used / Worth To Keep ? Poll inspired by other topic

Poll: WebCache (403 member(s) have cast votes)

Should the webcache-feature be kept in modern Mods ?

  1. Yes (226 votes [55.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.94%

  2. No (140 votes [34.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.65%

  3. Doesn't matter (38 votes [9.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.41%

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#41 User is offline   kretes 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 01:57 PM

Spyras is talking about polish open proxy (w3cache.icm.edu.pl) which was created to ease polish international inet-lines. It is a very powerful set of proxies and I think no one is abusing it. I think you're just sorry your countries (in Poland - mainly educational institutions) didn't came with that idea.
BTW: I also voted for keeping webcache.
spyras: pozdro!
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#42 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 02:19 PM

View Postkretes, on May 25 2007, 01:57 PM, said:

Spyras is talking about polish open proxy (w3cache.icm.edu.pl) which was created to ease polish international inet-lines. It is a very powerful set of proxies and I think no one is abusing it. I think you're just sorry your countries (in Poland - mainly educational institutions) didn't came with that idea.
BTW: I also voted for keeping webcache.
spyras: pozdro!

what kind of shit is that¿ i am not even using webcache anylonger. it is exactly because of the reasons we mentioned. if you don't like the development do it better or quit whining.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#43 User is offline   spyras 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 02:58 PM

View PostStulle, on May 25 2007, 02:22 PM, said:

we will see how long you keep up your abusive behaviour towards open proxies.

I'm sure that till the time when server will say that my client is out-of-the-date, or admins of proxy will block the traffic.
Im saying once again: we DO NOT abusing proxy. Maybe the better way would be to add option to disable/enable upload via proxy.

spyras

This post has been edited by spyras: 25 May 2007 - 03:04 PM

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#44 User is offline   Nissenice 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 07:53 PM

View Postspyras, on May 25 2007, 04:58 PM, said:

Maybe the better way would be to add option to disable/enable upload via proxy.


Not. Not according to the democratic opinion of the masses. :D
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#45 User is offline   spyras 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 08:17 PM

View PostNissenice, on May 25 2007, 08:53 PM, said:

View Postspyras, on May 25 2007, 04:58 PM, said:

Maybe the better way would be to add option to disable/enable upload via proxy.


Not. Not according to the democratic opinion of the masses. :D

The same "democratic opinion" says that wc should stay...:P
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#46 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 08:28 PM

and the major WC mods agreed to remove it. now i wonder what will be the result of all these stats. i vote for "modders 1 : whiners 0" :P
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#47 User is offline   Famerlor 

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Post icon  Posted 25 May 2007 - 08:55 PM

View PostStulle, on May 24 2007, 09:01 AM, said:

maybe we should all together remove it at once. sooner or later everyone will move up to an up2date version even though no WC is supported.

:thumbup:


View PostBadKENNY, on May 24 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

If you can- leave it. Like spyras said its more then 40% of my total download. When WC gone where I can go? BitTorrent ? Plz no! ;)

Don't be childish, BadKenny ! eMule works just fine without WC, too.


View PostXman1, on May 25 2007, 08:06 AM, said:

also a good poll would be "who is using webcache in the regular way (without abusing open proxies)"

To be honest - I really was thinking about that poll, too...


View PostLorenzoC, on May 25 2007, 12:17 PM, said:

View Postleuk_he, on May 25 2007, 10:40 AM, said:

-95% of the users do not use isp proxy, but a public proxy.
In theory it is possible to solve all this...

Really? How??
Regards.

Well, LorenzoC, it is possible to prevent users from using free proxies, at least a bit. Spike2-Mod blocks some DynDNS-Adresses for Webcache-Proxy since the first version.... but I don't want to code an updatable PlugIn (like it is used i.e. for some AntiLeech-Systems) that blocks all DynDNS-Services... To be honest: Most people who voted for "yes" wouldn't be happy with that, because nearly everybody who uses WC (and really gets download from it) ABuses an public proxy.


View PostStulle, on May 25 2007, 12:43 PM, said:

thus next morphxt, next stullemule and next scarangel will surely be released WITHOUT webcache.

View PostDavidXanatos, on May 25 2007, 02:01 PM, said:

The next neo will also be relised without WC.

Okay, this is not really a surprise now: Next Spike2-Mod will also be released without WC, too !


View PostStulle, on May 25 2007, 03:22 PM, said:

we as modders have responsibility for the software we publish. so if you exploit webcache and abuse open proxies it's a matter we have to be concerned about.

Correct. I tried to prevent abusing open proxies in Spike2-Mod, but people complained about that limiting. To make it even worse I was asked as feature request to support using more than one proxy for Webcache !! Conclusion: Every feature has to be user-proof. Every feature which CAN be exploited - like WC - WILL be exploited. It's a pity.


View Postkretes, on May 25 2007, 03:57 PM, said:

Spyras is talking about polish open proxy (w3cache.icm.edu.pl) which was created to ease polish international inet-lines. It is a very powerful set of proxies and I think no one is abusing it. I think you're just sorry your countries (in Poland - mainly educational institutions) didn't came with that idea.
BTW: I also voted for keeping webcache.
spyras: pozdro!

Well, I read the page you linked and I don't get the impression that this proxies are thought for caching P2P-data....


Yes, I liked Webcache. It was fun as long as it lasted. But it's over now: Webcache is dead.



Greetz--

Spike2
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You want a light mod with source-dropping, Powershare and WiZaRd's ClientAnalyzer ?
Try Spike2-Mod !

You rather want to stick to official eMule but don't want to miss all the new fixes and optimizations from the mods ?
Try OfFixed-Mod !


This post has been edited 1 time, the last time by God: Tomorrow, 12:74 PM
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#48 User is offline   Xman1 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 09:37 PM

In my calendar I mark this day with a big red X:
all modder have the same opinion
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#49 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 09:46 PM

that makes all the major mods (with WC) being still developed... splendid!

This post has been edited by Stulle: 25 May 2007 - 09:47 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#50 User is offline   majaboss 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 10:01 PM

Quote

well... wc is stil working good for me (up to 80% of all download) ... so I voted YES


so I voted YES :thumbup:
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#51 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 10:07 PM

View Postmajaboss, on May 25 2007, 10:01 PM, said:

Quote

well... wc is stil working good for me (up to 80% of all download) ... so I voted YES


so I voted YES :thumbup:

i vote for "nobody cares anylonger"... :P
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#52 User is offline   MunkY-HeaD 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 08:35 AM

As long as you keep supporting WEB and WAP interface, you're my mod of choice!
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#53 User is offline   Web_Master™ 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 04:32 PM

Thus some MOD's with these withdrawals of features commits suicide.
I voted yes and I go to continue with the version Morpht 9,6 since in future versions she will not be enclosed.

Regards
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#54 User is offline   LorenzoC 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 05:11 PM

How funnny...
I guess "suicidal" is using whatever outdated mod.
You can't use the WebCache alone, so you need to convince A LOT of people to stay with outdated mods AND abuse the same proxy you are abusing, otherwise you won't find anything cached on the proxy. This of course if you manage to make the WebCache work without any further development done on its code.

I am waiting to see if the same people who supported the WebCache and the open proxies on the public boards will now support the outdated mods and then if they will find enough "followers"... an intersting experiment in sociology.

This post has been edited by LorenzoC: 26 May 2007 - 05:12 PM

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#55 User is offline   spyras 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 05:22 PM

Ok - you'll decided to not keep wc in your mod
But i'd like to ask you: why do you treat all the ppl who vote "yes' as a freak who use ONLY public proxy?
Why do you not ask them (eg on another poll) what kond of proxy do they use?
You can treat me as a frek, leecher...but dont treat as the same way the others who vote "yes" (i heve the feeling that you do)

spike: i dont think that youre really know the specific of w3cache.icm.edu.pl cache.
Enjoy your decision.
Fortunatelly till now time of developing emule is quiet long (since 0.47c to 48a past few months), so i can imagine that for next 2 years i dont have to worry, and use "older" version of emule till the time the server says that my client is too old :)

greets
@Lorenzo: I can guarantee that alot of ppl will stay on "old" version emule with wc :) - take care of your sociology experiment, and ask in the future who use mods with wc ;)

spyras

View PostLorenzoC, on May 26 2007, 06:45 PM, said:

If I was you I wouldn't be so sure there are enough stupid people to populate your proxy...

Im sorry that you call them "stupid"
Maybe youre "the one wise" man who now everything the best.

spyras

This post has been edited by PacoBell: 29 May 2007 - 01:39 AM

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#56 User is offline   LorenzoC 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:10 PM

The poll is wrong indeed.
You can't ask people what they think about a feature when you already know 90% are mis-using the feature on purpose.

Quote

I can guarantee that alot of ppl will stay on "old" version emule with wc

We will see once the modders remove the feature and give the explaination on WHY it is being removed.

So far the modders more or less supported the WebCache giving people the excuse to publically advertise the open proxies abuse as "allowed" bahaviour.

Now a different point is getting established.
The WebCache (given the open proxies usage) is a BAD FEATURE de facto.

Edit, sorry I was changing my post.
Anyway, yes, I belive people who use the Webcache with open proxies are stupid.
You can easily find all the information about how the WebCache works, what are the issues related to it, why it wasn't added to the official client, etc. Unfortunately people don't know/understand/care of anything but their download speed. Like leechers.
Like leechers, to make the Webcache work there are also those who make sure the stupids who don't know/undertand/care gather around some kind of community...
So now we see what happens to the WebCache open proxies "communities".

This post has been edited by LorenzoC: 26 May 2007 - 06:23 PM

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#57 User is offline   spyras 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:37 PM

But you dont know the SPECIFIC of some "open" proxies.
eg. w3cache.icm.edu.pl is prepared to use ed2k network NOT to cache http and any other content (in some cases it does). It is called "open" but in fact it isnt. That is why you dont understand what is going on.

spyras
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#58 User is offline   LorenzoC 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:52 PM

I don't know anything about your country, besiedes the fact I would not be happy to have something like a "central-edu-thingy" there to log all my emule activity. Then tell me again about the IPFilter...

But I know here in Italy, I guess in Spain and other (most? almost every?) countries the ISP proxies don't exist any more.
Since years now.

In theory you could not use the WebCache, because of mainly 2 reasons: 1. with Emule's traffic you force the "unknown" proxy to shut down, 2 "unknown" proxy security/privacy concerns.

But some smart people thought "who cares what they say, let's use the open proxies" organized things like "wcitalia.no-ip.info", then advertised it everywhere trying to push as many people as they could on it.

I don't know why the modders went on pretending they did not know about WebCache and open proxies till now.
Maybe because in Germany (most modders seem to be german) some ISP proxy existed.
I don't know.

Anyway, all you need is a dedicated dev who takes care of a polish mod with a polish WebCache that allows the user to connect to your "pseudo-open-proxy" ONLY.
All this discussion was born "officially" in the ancient times because nobody wanted to create and maintain a "closed" list of proxies.
I suspect the open proxy option was also attractive for many... anyway...

This post has been edited by LorenzoC: 26 May 2007 - 06:56 PM

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#59 User is offline   Atlan[GEDC] 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:54 PM

just for the sake of it, exists there any written paper about your beloved polish proxy?
somehow i doubt that a proxy named w3cache...anythingelse is not firstly established to cache http data.
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#60 User is offline   Famerlor 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 07:28 PM

View PostLorenzoC, on May 26 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

This of course if you manage to make the WebCache work without any further development done on its code.

Correct, Webcache will definitly stop to work beginning with the 3rd September 2007 !

View Postspyras, on May 26 2007, 07:22 PM, said:

spike: i dont think that youre really know the specific of w3cache.icm.edu.pl cache.
Enjoy your decision.

Yes. Because on the Webcache of your "not-so-open-proxy" there's no clue that this proxy is dedicated to ed2k-traffic... honestly, I really doubt it. And even if it is: It is still not the usage of WebCache, it was originally developed for.

View Postspyras, on May 26 2007, 08:37 PM, said:

eg. w3cache.icm.edu.pl is prepared to use ed2k network NOT to cache http and any other content (in some cases it does). It is called "open" but in fact it isnt. That is why you dont understand what is going on.

View PostAtlan[GEDC], on May 26 2007, 08:54 PM, said:

just for the sake of it, exists there any written paper about your beloved polish proxy?
somehow i doubt that a proxy named w3cache...anythingelse is not firstly established to cache http data.

Well, nothing to add to what Atlan said: I doubt it. "w3cache" = "wwwcache" - doesn't sound like a dedicated eMule-Webcache... btw: If somebody really wants to support eMule in this way it would be FAR better to install a peercache-Server instead. Especially since PeerCache is supported even by official eMule...and works VERY similiar to Webcache. So I'd say: IF this proxy really would be dedicated to eMule, it would be a PeerCache-Proxy.

View PostLorenzoC, on May 26 2007, 08:52 PM, said:

I don't know anything about your country, besiedes the fact I would not be happy to have something like a "central-edu-thingy" there to log all my emule activity. Then tell me again about the IPFilter...

Correct - it's a matter of security, too. Everybody complains about Fake-Servers and their possible logging activities, but on the other hand it doesn't seem to be a big problem to connect to any open proxy, where you do not know, who runs this proxy with which logging options enabled... Take the marketscore-Proxy-Farm for example (which was commonly (ab)used for Webcache in the past) and read this: http://securityrespo...arketscore.html

Quote

I don't know why the modders went on pretending they did not know about WebCache and open proxies till now.
Maybe because in Germany (most modders seem to be german) some ISP proxy existed.
I don't know.

Correct - Germanys biggest ISP still has proxies, which worked very fine with Webcache a long time. Since it doesn't work anymore, I think this is quite a secure sign that they don't want their proxies being used for Webcache... Of course, no modder would have any difficulties changing webcache for "obfuscated" Webcache-Transfer and I'm sure in the beginning Webcache would work just as usual. But again: ISPs would stop this by just blocking 180kb-blocks and responsible modder would implement such a hack as it would be AGAIN an abusing of foreign resources.
Btw:

Quote

why the modders went on pretending they did not know about WebCache and open proxies till now
- I think nobody actually did. But WebCache was a real PRO-ISP-feature in the way it was meant to be used and therefore it was kept in the mods. It's just like many other features - they CAN be abused, but can be very usefull if used in a responsible manner and therefore kept. Spike2-Mod for example already blocked some DynDNS-services as proxy-adresses untill now, and this codepart was merged in other mods too (i.e. Resurrection).
Posted Image

You want a light mod with source-dropping, Powershare and WiZaRd's ClientAnalyzer ?
Try Spike2-Mod !

You rather want to stick to official eMule but don't want to miss all the new fixes and optimizations from the mods ?
Try OfFixed-Mod !


This post has been edited 1 time, the last time by God: Tomorrow, 12:74 PM
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