[sowhat]

GranCanGuy: You know I2P?

It`s similar to tor, but it`s not client->server. Everyone runs a router then (server). All traffic is routed and filesharing with i2p is explicit allowed. There is already bittorrent and guntella (ip2phex) in alpha stage. I guess emule could use i2p as underlaying network as well with many modifications by the developers. I2P has not enough contributors. Most is in alpha or beta stage and the gui`s are not that comfortable. If you are interested just search for I2P and also read wikipedia.

But to stop the euphoria... I think to use routing to improve anonymity in p2p is the wrong way. Not the uploader and downloader can be identified then, but the postman. Right now the laws are unclear if the postman would be responsible for any illegal content he delivered but the legal base is very unstable. Even if the current laws are not strong enough... Some bastards will use anonymity to spread content like kidporn. Kidporn will be used as buzzword to forbid this networks by law.

So this might be the reason not to invest into routed networks.

A better solution might be friend to friend networks with turtle hopping. I made a thread about it some time ago.
http://forum.emule-p...howtopic=124508

At heavy cost of speed and availability of content there can be security improved. But maybe in some years if punishment is harder and connection speed is faster this might be the ultimate solution if enough people connect to each other.

[Cybergoose]

I am in the UK but have just caught the end of a US television news broadcast. Unfortunately, I did not see all of it but it appears that there has just been a US court decision that ISPs cannot be forced to provide personal details of their customers "suspected of file sharing".

I assume that this is part of the on-going action being taken by the record industry but I have no more details. As the terrestrial BBC network will not be broadcasting any more US newscasts today, can anyone else fill in the gaps?

Questions that spring to mind are: what level of court was it and will there be any appeal?

[qm2003]

I fear, you got it a little wrong.

http://www.slyck.com...Identities_Safe

[harfman]

Now MPAA and RIAA can detects emule user's ip and status of file sharing, and some countries have sentenced that file sharing is illegal for copyrighted material.

So it is need for hiding ip.....
How about introduce new future that who want hide his ip can use his emule program as a proxy server.
if he want remain annonymos in the network he must support proxy server and donate bandwidth to proxy server function (maybe minimal bandwidth is must equal to his download limit)

Any file sharing action of annonymous user will be performed through his proxy server and can't detected.

This will increase traffic of whole network but who accused person can protest "I involved in this file but I didn't possessed this file!!!!!" Regardless of he activates proxy or not.

This post has been edited by harfman: 20 July 2007 - 07:06 AM

[Indingi]

: ANTS, MUTE

Not going to happen in edonkey/mule...

This post has been edited by Indingi: 20 July 2007 - 07:14 AM

[Cybergoose]

qm2003, on Jul 20 2007, 07:32 AM, said:

I fear, you got it a little wrong.

http://www.slyck.com...Identities_Safe

Thanks for that very informative link, qm2003, but I don’t think I did get it wrong. What I saw was definitely a US, not European, report. I suppose it could have been reporting on the European issue but I think not, as it DID say that under a court judgement, companies would NOT be able to obtain this information.

As you know, the link refers not to a European Court of Justice judgement but to a recommendation to that court, albeit that acceptance is highly likely. Has there, I wonder, been a European case since the linked article?

Does anyone else know anything about this? What about you users in the US?

P.S. Since writing the above, I have been checking on US news sites and they all refer to exactly the same issue as discussed in qm2003’s link. I obviously got the wrong end of the stick! Sorry to mislead. If anybody is interested, this is the CBS take on it:

http://www.cbsnews.c...in3071072.shtml

Anyway, it’s still VERY good news for those of us in the EU.

This post has been edited by Cybergoose: 20 July 2007 - 12:30 PM

[Indingi]

Hmm - can we get the witnesses to be all armed law enforcement officers?

[PacoBell]

Aggravated, on Jul 20 2007, 12:37 AM, said:

How about this idea? I'm committing a homicide dressed like you in front of several witness leaving your I.D. card at the crime scene.

Well, if you know anything about criminal investigation, it's that eyewitness testimony tends to be the least reliable evidence. That's why we have forensics; because perception on the surface level doesn't always reflect reality.

[harfman]

Quote

How about this idea? I'm committing a homicide dressed like you in front of several witness leaving your I.D. card at the crime scene

ha ha I don't care
The goal of proxy server aimed to prvent RIAA and MPAA works not for crime.
Addition to this, anybody will not willinglly turn on proxy server option Anything will not be changed but RIAA and MPAA can't gather distinct evidence

This post has been edited by harfman: 21 July 2007 - 07:26 AM

[Cybergoose]

I may be a bit late discovering the world-shattering news about the merger of the RIAA and the MPAA to form the MAFIAA but for anyone else who has been out of the loop for the last 15 months, here’s the official announcement:

http://www.mafiaa.org/press_room/

I like it!

[GranCanGuy]

sowhat, on Jun 11 2007, 01:44 PM, said:

But to stop the euphoria... I think to use routing to improve anonymity in p2p is the wrong way. Not the uploader and downloader can be identified then, but the postman. Right now the laws are unclear if the postman would be responsible for any illegal content he delivered but the legal base is very unstable. Even if the current laws are not strong enough... Some bastards will use anonymity to spread content like kidporn. Kidporn will be used as buzzword to forbid this networks by law.

Absolutely, but that argument could be applied to any form of obscured filesharing. Therefore the only solution is to fileshare in the open and thus dangle ourselves on a hook for the RIAA/MPAA.

Indeed, doesn't TOR-like schemes already allow safe networks for paedophiles and terrorists ? The only difference with filesharing is that the RIAA/MPAA bribes. Politicians don't get backhanders for chasing paedophiles! This is the ONLY reason that there is no percieved safe harbour for filesharers whilst shady elements of society can get by with assured anonimity.

There are some merits in the stand-up-and-be-counted approach... provided that it can eventually force legislative changes on the basis of mass popularity by making parties see anti-filesharing legislation a form of political suicide. Unfortunately, the filesharing community isn't exactly ready to go marching yet. But perhaps they should... perhaps we need coordinated marches to the town halls of every major city to deliver petitions. If so, it needs to be done pretty soon because the longer the current climate persists the less safe people feel.

But until we, as a community, learn to apply collective political pressure then there is no hope for legislative change. Letters to senators just won't cut it... it has to be done in person. And not just a single event... it has to be repeated events in order to gather momentum as only a small percent will attend a march or protest - the majority will wait until it is observably safe to join in.

either that, or accept the criminal status being thrust on us and go underground.

sowhat, on Jun 11 2007, 01:44 PM, said:

So this might be the reason not to invest into routed networks.

A better solution might be friend to friend networks with turtle hopping. I made a thread about it some time ago.
http://forum.emule-p...howtopic=124508

At heavy cost of speed and availability of content there can be security improved. But maybe in some years if punishment is harder and connection speed is faster this might be the ultimate solution if enough people connect to each other.

So, you're saying that filesharing should NOT seek anonimity just yet - for fear of bringing in further restrictive measures including criminalising privacy networks. I do see some sense in that.

However , ultimately we have to do one or the other. Stand up and refuse to be pushed around... or run and hide... Either can be effective. But to stand there and submissively take the beating is not an option. Unfortunately, this is exactly what the community is doing right now... and it is a losing strategy. The whole 'they can't get us all' ethos is a sham... they can. They can pick us off one by one for the money... whilst demonstrating the need for tougher legislation and using OUR money to fund their political schmoozing.

So, we either go underground now, or we march now ... but standing around being picked off one by one whilst helping them build a case both in law and in the media is only going to take away our strength as a massive international community.


In an ideal world we could start embedding flyers in our shares, create an international union of filesharers, and get people congregating. I'd love to see 500 people in front of every town hall once per month... and some national marches of thousands. But it isn't going to happen. It could, perhaps, if we had a strong martyr figure first... someone who had no money to settle the infringement claim and who is thus jailed... perferably someone with family.

...and even then, we'd probably all just stay at home and chat on forums about how terrible it is and how something should be done.

Which is a shame, particularly in europe where cracks have emerged in the MPAA/RIAA plan. Demonstrating our peer power in europe could have particularly devastating results for the RIAA/MPAA worldwide.


Personally, I think we should do both. Build experimental filesharing systems that rely on encryption and onion-skinned requests or exploiting holes in current law whilst at the same time trying to get people to meet up and showing their numbers.

After all. Can you imagine anything more effective than 1000 people meeting up in the centre of town, swapping CD's openly and giving away free audio CD's (with a freedom speech on the first track) to the shopping public ? Can you imagine the media frenzy and the complete inability of the police to act ? Can you imagine half of those people (preferably the ones that don't own their own homes) then marching on the police station/town hall with media in tow politely demanding to be arrested for public filesharing ?

The world could be a very different place tomorrow if we only had the balls to take positive action today.


-GranCanGuy

This post has been edited by GranCanGuy: 24 July 2007 - 12:59 PM

[donek]

Hi

I have big problem I've got email from Rogers Cable that it has received a notice stating that activities associated with my IP address are infringing copyright in material(s) owned or exclusively licensed by others. They've got letter from Internet Anti-Piracy Team, Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations.
Generally they ask me not to download and use eMule. There is some way to avoid this abuse in the future ?

[Indingi]

There's a 100% certain sure way to not get into any trouble (and by the way it's the only advice you'll get here on that subject):

Don't share copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner

Nobody has a standing to tell you not to use software X, but if you use software X to violate the rights of person/company/entity Y then you can get in trouble.

[cafebean]

donek, on Aug 18 2007, 09:00 PM, said:

Hi

I have big problem I've got email from Rogers Cable that it has received a notice stating that activities associated with my IP address are infringing copyright in material(s) owned or exclusively licensed by others. They've got letter from Internet Anti-Piracy Team, Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations.
Generally they ask me not to download and use eMule. There is some way to avoid this abuse in the future ?

Rogers Cable? in Canada? Then it is certainly abuse since

Quote

...in BMG Canada Inc. v. John Doe -- the most recent decision on the matter by the Federal Court, the highest Canadian court to rule on the issue -- both uploading and downloading were found to be legal. This decision has not been overturned, so this is current Canadian law.

http://en.wikipedia....aring_in_Canada

Quote

which the court rejected the Canadian Recording Industry Association’s attempt to uncover the identities of 29 alleged file sharers

http://www.michaelge.../june62005.html

So you should ask Rogers Cable if they received a court order to forward the complaints.

This post has been edited by cafebean: 20 August 2007 - 08:10 PM

[JEANNOT2]

Smoke, on Jul 27 2003, 11:33 PM, said:

@drorsdd
You can protect yourself by not downloading anything which is copyrighted in some or the other way.

It is as simple as that, why demanding the devs for backup ? Are they responsible for what you are doing ?

Rgds, Smoke

With wrong description and missing info how can I know this is a copyrighted or not?

[EvolutionCrazy]

JEANNOT2, on Sep 5 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

Smoke, on Jul 27 2003, 11:33 PM, said:

@drorsdd
You can protect yourself by not downloading anything which is copyrighted in some or the other way.

It is as simple as that, why demanding the devs for backup ? Are they responsible for what you are doing ?

Rgds, Smoke

With wrong description and missing info how can I know this is a copyrighted or not?

download only from trusted source: http://content.emule-project.net/ for example

[JEANNOT2]

venomhed, on Jul 27 2003, 05:17 AM, said:

The EMULE developers are proud that they have JUST NOW produced a release
that PROVES your identitiy to all other clients by SECURE and IN-CIRCUMVENTABLE
cryptographic algorithms.


Maybe this is the answer?

Not a lawyer and know nothing about laws, but I do have a limited understanding of computers -limited as its expansion is way to fast for me to follow all of it - to me every engineering as a reverse engineering so IN-CIRCUMVENTABLE cryptographic algorithms at the moment will be soon CIRCUMVENTABLE its a matter of time!

[JEANNOT2]

EvolutionCrazy, on Sep 5 2007, 09:29 PM, said:

JEANNOT2, on Sep 5 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

Smoke, on Jul 27 2003, 11:33 PM, said:

@drorsdd
You can protect yourself by not downloading anything which is copyrighted in some or the other way.

It is as simple as that, why demanding the devs for backup ? Are they responsible for what you are doing ?

Rgds, Smoke

With wrong description and missing info how can I know this is a copyrighted or not?

download only from trusted source: http://content.emule-project.net/ for example

Thanks Douude

[MonkeyNutz]

so what ever happened to the razorback 2 team? were they fined, jailed, harrassed? Whatever happened to the case?

This post has been edited by MonkeyNutz: 16 September 2007 - 05:20 PM