[DavidXanatos]

Well, I guess strongly opposing any user wishes and demands has its price.

I think its time for anonymization and a random queue.
Give the casual users speed and safety.

[Some Support]

DavidXanatos, on 09 September 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well, I guess strongly opposing any user wishes and demands has its price.

Probably. Feel free to post your clients download statistics once you have reached half a billion downloads

[Enig123]

DavidXanatos, on 09 September 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well, I guess strongly opposing any user wishes and demands has its price.

I think its time for anonymization and a random queue.
Give the casual users speed and safety.

I've already implemented a numerical steady random queue with random credit system based on emule for years. It's not a good excuse to start a new client nor to declare that emule is dead (dead is a strong word imho).

[DavidXanatos]

Some Support, on 09 September 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

DavidXanatos, on 09 September 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well, I guess strongly opposing any user wishes and demands has its price.

Probably. Feel free to post your clients download statistics once you have reached half a billion downloads

Past successes shouldn't be a reason to stop keeping up with the development of the world.
I'm looking into the future not into the past and so should you.
I think you cant dispute the fact that eMule is loosing its appeal to the masses, as you can clearly see on the SF stats.

eMule needs to do something to become attractive to the new users again.
like the 2 suggested features, but there are much more others, like NAT-T, etc...

Look at teh stats: http://sourceforge.n...1+to+2012-09-09 eMule hasn't been so low since it started.
This really should be a wake call for you to start changing something, in order to win the users back.

David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 10 September 2012 - 06:48 AM

[tHeWiZaRdOfDoS]

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

I think you cant dispute the fact that eMule is loosing its appeal to the masses, as you can clearly see on the SF stats.

I can't believe that you seriously post something like that!
Naturally, there's no need to re-download the same program again and again if it hasn't been updated... so let's say there are X possible users out there... the downloads of the latest eMule version get closer and closer to X - and that's why they get lower.

[DavidXanatos]

tHeWiZaRdOfDoS, on 10 September 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

I think you cant dispute the fact that eMule is loosing its appeal to the masses, as you can clearly see on the SF stats.

I can't believe that you seriously post something like that!
Naturally, there's no need to re-download the same program again and again if it hasn't been updated... so let's say there are X possible users out there... the downloads of the latest eMule version get closer and closer to X - and that's why they get lower.

Well the point kinda is how many new Users you get.
If you are happy with completely stagnating with no new users, than please go on.
But you must realize that this old users will not stick indefinitely to eMule and or to P2P Filesharing as a whole, as they are more and more very convenient legal ways to get the stuff for free.

0 growth means not only that your population of users is not getting bigger it also means that every user that leaves isn't replaced.
Its like with live if you get a sterile population the complete demise is only a Mather of time.


David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 10 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

[fox88]

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

0 growth means not only that your population of users is not getting bigger it also means that every user that leaves isn't replaced.

David, please explain how "zero growth of 1.3 millions of download per month" can be used as a proof of diminishing user base. (Actually, there was a minor growth in August compared to July).

[DavidXanatos]

fox88, on 10 September 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

0 growth means not only that your population of users is not getting bigger it also means that every user that leaves isn't replaced.

David, please explain how "zero growth of 1.3 millions of download per month" can be used as a proof of diminishing user base. (Actually, there was a minor growth in August compared to July).

Just a linear extrapolation of the trend of the last few months:

technician23, on 09 September 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

http://sourceforge.n...1+to+2012-09-09

January: 6 Million
February: 5 Million
march: 4 Willion
April: 3 Million
Mai: 2 Million
August: 1 Million
September: .... WOW IT´S LIKE NOKIA !

[fox88]

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Just a linear extrapolation of the trend of the last few months:

Are you reading questions carefully?
Please try again. Will you be able to spot one missing month, where linear extrapolation obviously failed?

[DavidXanatos]

fox88, on 10 September 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Just a linear extrapolation of the trend of the last few months:

Are you reading questions carefully?
Please try again. Will you be able to spot one missing month, where linear extrapolation obviously failed?

the trend is clear

[fox88]

DavidXanatos, on 10 September 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Maybe the link to Unbenannt.JPG is working for you, but I see only words Posted Image as placeholder. It makes the trend still unclear. Also I'd love to see your explanation why it must be linear f

Maybe the link to Unbenannt.JPG is working for you, but I see only words Posted Image as placeholder. It makes the trend still unclear. Also I'd love to see your explanation why it must be linear function.

This post has been edited by fox88: 10 September 2012 - 02:19 PM

[Stulle]

Just because. That's about all the reason there is to it. If he is not allowed to market directly he will have to negative market eMule so people get curious for his new product.

BTW, I think the original AppleJuice network is a good example for a shrinking community that works. In fact, it's probably more of a community than eMule ever was, given that these people actually bother to get together in real life and stay true to their chosen client. And yeah, I think it is fairly certain that AppleJuice is not gaining a lot of new users. (Note that their last releases were in 2009.)

Another reason why the whole decreasing user base is bollocks is the change of times. I think David pointed it out himself, internet access is getting faster for many people. That means that their online time spent in the network is getting more productive. Now, could anyone imagine a company firing people increasing their revenue? I can.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 12 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

[DavidXanatos]

I'm just trying to motivate the mule devs to resume development and give the users some long long wanted features.

David X.

[RejZoR]

I think tHeWiZaRdOfDoS and Tuxman already did it with kMule ( http://forum.emule-p...howtopic=155466 ).
It's a direction where official eMule should head a long time ago. Simplified client with KAD only network. It probably needs some polishing but this is it imo. The reason why novice users don't use eMule is because it's just too fiddly and too hard to setup out of the box. kMule fires itself up pretty much by itself. I'd even sack the initial startup wizard but ok...

[DavidXanatos]

I don't think stripping down the current mule is what the users need.

The users need anonymity and a better distribution of the available upload bandwidth in the network, as well as some NAT-T would be nice.
I mean I could go on for pages about what new potential features would be usefull, but lets just throw a few ideas in:
1. Index file association in kad, so if a user shares a directory for each file in this directory the mule could publish what other files ware the neighbours, this would make the finding all episodes of a TV season (like pioneer one) or entire CC music albums so much easyer, if you find or know one file from the set you can locate automatically and anonymously the other files.
2. Some kind of intelligent rating file rating, iirc the tribbler (bt client) guys are doing some serious research on that.
3. Make the search function better, see sphinxsearch...
etc....
simply add new useful functionality that stands up to the user expectations from today instead of from the year 2002.

aside of that take aMule code base to be multi platform compatible.

David X.

[RejZoR]

Actually stripping it down is what users want. They just want to download stuff, they don't care about upload or other fiddly gimmicky settings. That should all be automatic or set out of the box. Which frankly stock eMule isn't. Sure it'll work out of the box, sort of. But servers, we all know in what condition they are at the moment and KAD will not do anything without first having some contacts stored. Without the nodes, it won't even bootstrap. At least it never did for me even if i left it for hours in a "connecting" state.

[Zangune]

BadXanatos

DavidXanatos, on 09 September 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Well, I guess strongly opposing any user wishes and demands has its price.

Versus GoodXanatos

DavidXanatos, on 13 September 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

the tribbler (bt client) guys are doing some serious research on that.

Interesting idea CooperativeDownload (donate unused upload capacity to your friends)

RejZoR, on 13 September 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Actually stripping it down is what users want.

Users don't care about that.

RejZoR, on 13 September 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

They just want to download stuff, they don't care about upload or other fiddly gimmicky settings. That should all be automatic or set out of the box. Which frankly stock eMule isn't. Sure it'll work out of the box, sort of.

I wrote a post about that (click here if interested) small changes are enough.

RejZoR, on 13 September 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

But servers, we all know in what condition they are at the moment

Few servers, but they work as expected. Because of that removing server support is at least useless.

RejZoR, on 13 September 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

KAD will not do anything without first having some contacts stored. Without the nodes, it won't even bootstrap. At least it never did for me even if i left it for hours in a "connecting" state.

That's confirmed by hundread of users.

This post has been edited by Zangune: 13 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

[DavidXanatos]

Well, servers are an anachronism we need dezentralisation in order to oppose any controll attempts on the net, an a server is a very centralized thing by nature.
Also servers used as honey pods are a real danger to users.
So removing server support is the right way to go, and the reason why NeoLaoder does not have any server support in the first place.

KAD can not connect by design as long as it doe snto get a node to connect to, an easy fix is to provide some default download URL where to bootstrap, sure thats again zentralisation but a very weak one.

[Zangune]

The link to my post now works, sorry guys

DavidXanatos, on 13 September 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Well, servers are an anachronism we need dezentralisation in order to oppose any controll attempts on the net, an a server is a very centralized thing by nature.
Also servers used as honey pods are a real danger to users.

A good server list is enough to solve this problem, it's an old and good solution.

Pre filled address.dat and Options -> Server -> "Auto-update server list at startup" enabled by default or pre filled AC_ServerMetURLs.dat it's a solution easy to implement and very effective.
A redirect to gruk and/or peerates and/or whateveryouwant.com from emule-project.net/server.php in AC_ServerMetURLs.dat would be easy to implement, too.

DavidXanatos, on 13 September 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

KAD can not connect by design as long as it doe snto get a node to connect to, an easy fix is to provide some default download URL where to bootstrap, sure thats again zentralisation but a very weak one.

Redirect from emule-project.net/nodes.php to nodes-dat.com in a new config file AC_BootstrapAddress.dat or 195.236.75.57:5674 whateverIPyoulike in AC_BootstrapIPs.dat

Autoupdate server and kad at first run.

This is the way: small and smart changes.

[DavidXanatos]

I don't think a list of currently working servers is a safe solution.
the united police states of america are already hijacking domains, how long until they start hijacking IP addresses (like Pakistan did with youtube http://securitywatch...s-youtube-down) sure they head to give it back, but who is gong force the US to do anything?

Meaning they could just redirect the users to own honey pod servers and genuinely screw them over.

We would at least need an server protocol extension so that each server has an own certificate for identification and if some one takes over the IP they can not pose as the server.

But this does not address the second yet more pressing issue, sending cops to the home of the server operator and forcing him to install a logger turning his server into a honey pod.
The later scenario can not be prevented by strictly technological means, meaning that the safety of the users depends on trust in the server operator to live in a country that will not band backwards for the US.

bottom line is that imho servers shouldn't be.

David X.