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Support For Offsystem Support for the Owner Free File System Rate Topic: -----

#81 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

Well it just proves my point that getting an unbiased POV would be nice. Anyway, both can be right depending on the extent of the rules the spokesperson is referring to and the extent of the original appeal.

EDIT:
Actually, your quote only says that part of the appeal is legit. It does not rule on the reasoning at that point, yet.

Quote

Die Verfassungsbeschwerde ist teilweise begründet.


If you check more closely you will find that the majority of appealed articles are not up for debate... still reading now but I think only §§113 TKG is really under closer scrutiny... will prolly edit again later on.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 24 February 2012 - 08:55 PM

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#82 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:04 PM

Anyway, it has nothing to do with the issues adressed by this FR: click.
So poste ich richtig! (besonders Punkt 2 beachten)
Für alle, die was heruntergeladen haben und nicht wissen was sie damit anfangen sollen: endun.gen.

BOINC ...and you can always say you're working on a science project.
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#83 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

True enough but since we have a lot of offtopic here already I'll try to keep it in here for now. ;)

So I read the reasoning on the IP ban and it is actually pretty ingenious. So what they say is you can actually store the IPs and if the IP was static you could retrieve it without any problem. You could even retrieve the dynamic IP if you could do it directly. But the problem is that the ISP needs to store more than one dynamic IP or connection. Going through these is what makes the whole thing break our constitution because that would violate the confidentiality of the communication. (see 116 in the verdict).

In conclusion, forcing German ISPs to assign only static IPs (if this is possible in the boundaries of the constitution and I cannot see why it would not be without any in detail analysis) would allow German authorities to once again make retrieve names and addresses for IPs they found. Which is to say that the court did not rule that storing this kind of data is not possible under our constitution.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 24 February 2012 - 09:15 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

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#84 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostStulle, on 24 February 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

So I read the reasoning on the IP ban and it is actually pretty ingenious. So what they say is you can actually store the IPs and if the IP was static you could retrieve it without any problem. You could even retrieve the dynamic IP if you could do it directly. But the problem is that the ISP needs to store more than one dynamic IP or connection. Going through these is what makes the whole thing break our constitution because that would violate the confidentiality of the communication. (see 116 in the verdict).

Basically, as I understand that part, they compare a static IP to a phone number which is assigned to a specific port, so when the authorities ask for the information about a phone number, they get the adress, name on which it's registered, or whatever they get. Dynamic IP they see however as part of the communication which is protected by the confidentiality of the communication.



View PostStulle, on 24 February 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

In conclusion, forcing German ISPs to assign only static IPs (if this is possible in the boundaries of the constitution and I cannot see why it would not be without any in detail analysis) would allow German authorities to once again make retrieve names and addresses for IPs they found. Which is to say that the court did not rule that storing this kind of data is not possible under our constitution.

Yes, since in that case IPs would be like phone numbers.
So poste ich richtig! (besonders Punkt 2 beachten)
Für alle, die was heruntergeladen haben und nicht wissen was sie damit anfangen sollen: endun.gen.

BOINC ...and you can always say you're working on a science project.
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#85 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

Yep. Bit of paraphrasing but we generally are on the same level here. Although I think the implication is rather that a dynamic IP allows a closer look on which other connections have been established in a set time frame which nobody can with a static IP. This being the breach of the confidentiality and not the dynamic nature of the IP per say. Anyway, the idea remains the same.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#86 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:15 AM

View PostStulle, on 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

In conclusion, forcing German ISPs to assign only static IPs (if this is possible in the boundaries of the constitution and I cannot see why it would not be without any in detail analysis)

It might not be unconstitutional, but it might still not be a law that can be realistically passed.

You can not do it with IPv4 and for IPv6 there might be pressing reasons not to pass such a law http://www.datenschu...etail/?nid=4902
The state would than so to say grant any company fill profiling capabilities over each user.

David X.
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
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#87 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:40 AM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 25 February 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

You can not do it with IPv4 and for IPv6 there might be pressing reasons not to pass such a law http://www.datenschu...etail/?nid=4902

I doubt, that it's necessary to annoy the users every 24 hours for privacy protection, a dynamic IP would still be dynamic, even if it wouldn't change until the user disconnects himself. What the providers say there, is basically "we still want to earn lots of money on static IPs", they simply found a nice way to put it.
So poste ich richtig! (besonders Punkt 2 beachten)
Für alle, die was heruntergeladen haben und nicht wissen was sie damit anfangen sollen: endun.gen.

BOINC ...and you can always say you're working on a science project.
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#88 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

View PostLink64, on 25 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

View PostDavidXanatos, on 25 February 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

You can not do it with IPv4 and for IPv6 there might be pressing reasons not to pass such a law http://www.datenschu...etail/?nid=4902

I doubt, that it's necessary to annoy the users every 24 hours for privacy protection, a dynamic IP would still be dynamic, even if it wouldn't change until the user disconnects himself. What the providers say there, is basically "we still want to earn lots of money on static IPs", they simply found a nice way to put it.


Well, yes, but if you had the choice to by annoyed every 24 hours or to have a static IP, what would you prefer?
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
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#89 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

View PostLink64, on 25 February 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Yes, since in that case IPs would be like phone numbers.

Is not it strange to protest against IP logging while phone connections are logged all the time?
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#90 User is offline   Link64 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 25 February 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Well, yes, but if you had the choice to by annoyed every 24 hours or to have a static IP, what would you prefer?

Sure, if that's what I can choose from and even have to pay extra for the last one, but privacy is for sure not their reason for dynamic IPs.



View Postfox88, on 25 February 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

View PostLink64, on 25 February 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Yes, since in that case IPs would be like phone numbers.

Is not it strange to protest against IP logging while phone connections are logged all the time?

I'm not sure how it is now, I don't have that ATM (I don't care much about phone as I almost don't use it), but before (IIRC) you could have the last 3 characters of all numbers on your invoice replaced by XXX and they were supposed to be saved like that in their systems. That would work for me also for IPs, i.e. if they saved the IPs like 123.123.123.XXX.
So poste ich richtig! (besonders Punkt 2 beachten)
Für alle, die was heruntergeladen haben und nicht wissen was sie damit anfangen sollen: endun.gen.

BOINC ...and you can always say you're working on a science project.
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#91 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostLink64, on 25 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

I'm not sure how it is now

I am sure.

View PostLink64, on 25 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

I don't have that ATM (I don't care much about phone as I almost don't use it), but before (IIRC) you could have the last 3 characters of all numbers on your invoice replaced by XXX and they were supposed to be saved like that in their systems.

Paper invoices from PSTN do not show full numbers.
But I can request from my mobile operator full list: what (full!) numbers I called and who called me, SMS, USSD and other messages; and the cost of each transaction. The data is available for half a year.

This post has been edited by fox88: 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM

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#92 User is offline   technician23 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

ok, so when is there a mod client with http://offload.sf.net implementation? That app uses wxwidgets like Imule like Amule.
So a mod coder should make a reference model based on Amule code, right?
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#93 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:39 AM

View Posttechnician23, on 04 March 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

ok, so when is there a mod client with http://offload.sf.net implementation? That app uses wxwidgets like Imule like Amule.
So a mod coder should make a reference model based on Amule code, right?

Probably never.

But you might hope for a new ed2k compatible client that implements such functionality.

David X.
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#94 User is offline   technician23 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:00 PM

off code in emule is just half the rent, then the problem exists, that the value is in the URL. As this decodes the XORed blocks,
you then need a tool to swap URLs, here either http://arado.sf.net is used or again http://interface.sf.net
Arado is a p2p URL database syncing every URL with every Node, but not encrypted. That will lead to have a status, in which emule has search disabled, and URL search is done in an outsourced too. The donkey will become a real donkey. all that with MFC gui is a totally recode. better make then emule with wxwidgets or Qt.
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#95 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

Well you could use KAD to index the off URL's, having a central site for indexing is a single point of failure.

Any future prove P2P system must be resistent against the states violence monopole.

There must be no way short of turning of the entire Internet to take down content.


PS: QT

David X.
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#96 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:02 PM

And next: P2P making any constitution obsolete. Have fun in a lawless society where any dimwit can do as he pleases and exercise his violence without any penalty to be feared. :thumbup:

This post has been edited by Stulle: 04 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#97 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostStulle, on 04 March 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

And next: P2P making any constitution obsolete. Have fun in a lawless society where any dimwit can do as he pleases and exercise his violence without any penalty to be feared. :thumbup:


Its kinda the point of any decentralised P2P nwtwork that there _no one_ so needer a dimwit nor the state can use any kind of violence. :thumbup:
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#98 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:05 PM

Merely trying to point out that the point of the state's monopoly on violence is that nobody else can lawfully or without any kind of penalty exercise violence on anybody else. You basically just defied this principle and in turn defied the constitution of any state that has a just constitution and abides basic human rights. In conclusion, you basically defy one set of principles while you assume that another set of principles promotes your ability to do that. Unfortunately, only if both sets of principles are combined to a constitution you will ensure the status quo remains. So which is it? No constitution and lawless rule of anarchy or human rights and a monopoly of violence enacted by the state?
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#99 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

Quote

So which is it? No constitution and lawless rule of anarchy or human rights and a monopoly of violence enacted by the state?

Needer.

No violence at all in anarchy.

You can not violate human rights without resorting to violence, in any environment you can by design exclude violence like in the Internet, you don't need a state that is allowed to use violence anyways.

In an environment where no one is technically capable of applying violence you don't need to artificially insert a party (state) that is enabled to applying violence.

Do you understand?
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#100 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:12 PM

So tell me, how do you like living in wonderland? Because where I live - the real world - people get beaten to death by strangers if it weren't for the police to step in. There is also people destroying personal property on the web by sending out viruses and hacking into systems they don't own. I wonder how you would like to have your every key stroke logged, your bank accounts emptied and a shit load of debts because of contracts somebody made in your stead using your details with no authority legally capable of stepping to prevent this from happening or at least find the culprit who basically just ruined your life. You know, I would actually love to really see this happen to you because it would make you get in touch with the real world again.

And by the way, if anarchy is the rule of the land there is nothing that will stop elements that cause you bodily or psychological harm or steal from you. The basic idea of the monopoly of violence and organized states is to prevent just this from happening. Better think twice before tearing down the things that enabled you to live like you live now. If you are so desperate for medieval society find a renaissance fair or go to the woods where your ideas don't hurt the people who were less fortunate than you are. Those that don't have the brains to make a good living but need to work hard for companies that would exploit them a whole lot more if it wasn't for laws to regulate their work environment and enable them to found workers unions. Those who can not just go to university and get a good education that will get them a nice job that pays well so they can hang around the internet spreading their ignorant political nonsense of a wonderland that only has productive and law abiding citizens. Grow up!
I am an emule-web.de member and fan!

[Imagine there was a sarcasm meter right here!]

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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