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Suggestion For Keep Alive Emule Development

#1 User is offline   petermrg 

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:18 PM

It seems that emule development is frozen.

Remember: this is an opensource project. Why are the "official" developers acting like it's closed source? No communication, no community, no feedbak, no documentation...
The project should be attractive and motivational to the community.

What's happening now? People instead of contributing to the project are making their own forks (mods). Why isn't the emule project getting the right feedback and contributions from these active developers?

Suggestions to keep the project alive.

  • First of all, we need an active project leader or working group to decide what should be included to the official version.
  • We need a good collaborative source control management (emule project isn't even using sourceforge tools! A zip file to distribute sources??? Really? WTF?). GitHub is a MUST. It free, fun and easy to use, with bug/suggestions tracking, pull requests, etc.
  • We need an official Wiki to write build instructions, describe an official protocol and allow people to contribute (the included GitHub one could make the job, but it would be better to open a mediawiki one).
  • We shouldn't depend on VisualStudio.
  • A cross platform application framework MUST be used (Qt, for example). We should be able to make IOS/Linux versions.
  • The home and forums needs an update. The emule christmas logo in march??


I really love eMule and I don't want to see how it gets slowly forgotten.

This post has been edited by petermrg: 17 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

eNode: eD2K/eMule server written in node.js. Fork it in GitHub
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#2 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:11 PM

Moving eMule to a different framework is really really hard as it uses MFC on all levels, an attempt on that is aMule.
But iirc. thay dont have all features, for example there is no USS as that would be really hard on linux (no icmp.dll), you would have to start a "ping" process and evaluate its console output, and others are also missing.

It would probably be easier to code eMule form scratch using a modern framework, for example the qMule project is doing that https://github.com/qmule/qmule though iirc. it is yet not in a really usable state.

As about a wiki for protocol, we can do that independently form the eMule devs,
I could start one on neos webpage as the protocol is universal for all clients anyways.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 17 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#3 User is offline   petermrg 

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 17 March 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

It would probably be easier to code eMule form scratch using a modern framework, for example the qMule project is doing that https://github.com/qmule/qmule though iirc. it is yet not in a really usable state.


This is what emule should be!!

qMule is moving into the right direction. And it looks very active.

This post has been edited by petermrg: 17 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

eNode: eD2K/eMule server written in node.js. Fork it in GitHub
0

#4 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

View Postpetermrg, on 17 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

View PostDavidXanatos, on 17 March 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

It would probably be easier to code eMule form scratch using a modern framework, for example the qMule project is doing that https://github.com/qmule/qmule though iirc. it is yet not in a really usable state.


This is what emule should be!!

qMule is moving into the right direction. And it looks very active.


Yea, the project is quite interesting, as they are actually developing 2 projects a GUI in QT and a Library for ed2k using boost library, similarity to libtorrent, this will provide maximal flexibility in client development (the boost library's are very portable and platform independent).

David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 17 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#5 User is offline   Some Support 

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

The current problem with our vanilla eMule is that there are not enough active developers for a fast paced development. Basically this means if you want to change something, don't write about it but do it. There is no lack of good ideas but a lack of working time.

More or less it has always been that way and that is how forks like aMule, xMule and eMule Plus were created. You can write about and publish your forks on this board (and on your own homepage of course), discuss development on this forum and so on. It is however unlikely that the vanilla eMule becomes such a fork, so you need to improve it enough so that users feel your project is worth switching.

Why not hand over the vanilla project to someone who says he has more time? Trust. While the development is currently slow (and probably will stay slow) we always garantueed and will continue to do so for certain features of eMule. Responsible behaviour for the network, privacy and security for the users before other features, FLOSS and most importantly no commercial background like advertising, bundled installations and so on.

PS: The logo was not the xmas but the winter logo

#6 User is offline   petermrg 

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostSome Support, on 03 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

The current problem with our vanilla eMule is that there are not enough active developers for a fast paced development. Basically this means if you want to change something, don't write about it but do it. There is no lack of good ideas but a lack of working time.

More or less it has always been that way and that is how forks like aMule, xMule and eMule Plus were created. You can write about and publish your forks on this board (and on your own homepage of course), discuss development on this forum and so on. It is however unlikely that the vanilla eMule becomes such a fork, so you need to improve it enough so that users feel your project is worth switching.

Why not hand over the vanilla project to someone who says he has more time? Trust. While the development is currently slow (and probably will stay slow) we always guaranteed and will continue to do so for certain features of eMule. Responsible behaviour for the network, privacy and security for the users before other features, FLOSS and most importantly no commercial background like advertising, bundled installations and so on.

PS: The logo was not the xmas but the winter logo



Ok, and can you give me a good reason for not publish the code on GitHub so that other developers can send pull requests, bug reports, write documentation, etc.? The maintainer or project leader, just has to review and accept the best ideas.
If someone makes a fork or a mod, with GitHub is very easy to follow the changes, comment them, improve and eventually merge the best into the main branch. Why are you requesting developers to make and publish their own forks instead to contributing to the main branch? This should be a workgroup, instead forcing each developer to make their own emule flavour, we should go in the same direction.

If you want ppl to share their code, a good source control platform is a must. I'm a newcomer here and I'm really surprised on how bad is emule development mounted.

Please, build a proper developer community, provide the right tools to do the job.

If you don't have time, I can make it for you. Please, start thinking as REAL opensource and not like a personal project.

edit: Forgot to mention, If you really have good Ideas for the project, just write a to-do list or the required specs, I'm sure that soon you will receive code updates from the community, but again, and sorry for repeating myself, move to git.

This post has been edited by petermrg: 04 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

eNode: eD2K/eMule server written in node.js. Fork it in GitHub
4

#7 User is offline   Sir_Boagalott 

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostSome Support, on 03 April 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

The current problem with our vanilla eMule is that there are not enough active developers for a fast paced development. Basically this means if you want to change something, don't write about it but do it. There is no lack of good ideas but a lack of working time.

More or less it has always been that way and that is how forks like aMule, xMule and eMule Plus were created. You can write about and publish your forks on this board (and on your own homepage of course), discuss development on this forum and so on. It is however unlikely that the vanilla eMule becomes such a fork, so you need to improve it enough so that users feel your project is worth switching.

Why not hand over the vanilla project to someone who says he has more time? Trust. While the development is currently slow (and probably will stay slow) we always garantueed and will continue to do so for certain features of eMule. Responsible behaviour for the network, privacy and security for the users before other features, FLOSS and most importantly no commercial background like advertising, bundled installations and so on.


If the official devs dont have the time, and understandably dont want to risk a trust issue, then why not try being a way more publicly open about what you want accomplished? Then a coder could see what is wanted done by officials who has the time could see an idea, like it, say they will code it put it into their own "mod", then prove that their code works. Then the official devs could look it over and approve it to be added to official (or not).

Personally I absolutely hate the idea of forks. It creates the exact same effect as an existing problem. Besides every mod is basically almost a fork anyway, its 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. There isnt really a whole lot of incentive for a developer to create a true fix for a real existing problem because it will only be as successful of a fix as to the number clients that end up adapting it, which is never the majority (official eMule). ex. Features like netfinitys sub chunk transfer would only make a big impact and be highly useful if the majority of clients used it, which they dont. I think that leads to a lot of mods primarily having kinda silly semi useless features that just make it look nice nice. Dont get me wrong, I do love a lot of the kinda silly semi useless features like country flags, coloured qr, etc but honestly they dont really improve the actual network in anyway. Clients without these features work the same.

I would love to see the official devs if they are retired from coding become more of a Board of Governors who decide on non officially developed features and adapt them into the official. And/or why not have a eMule Revised ed, which every modder should use as a base. It would be a community decided/updated base, which would be fully supported (looked over, approved 1st) by officials and any updates would be on the official DL page so all users could see if theres a new version and decide to use the non official base or not.

Possibly name the next official rel v51,52 etc and have a-z as non official but approved by officials as a community dev eMule Revised editions.

Have it work something like this: Coder has an idea, makes a new feature, pust it into his own mod, proves it works. Forum users try it, like it, agree that its great, and want it in eMule revised, it gets added. Official devs look over eMule Revised, like some of the new ideas and add them to official.
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#8 User is offline   Some Support 

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

The problem with the "let other code and merge it" approach is that it takes nearly as much time as coding yourself up to some degree (and additionally is much less fun)

Each code submission must be reviewed, following the authors line of thoughts and checking wether his changes have impact on anything else or if he forgot something etc. This is not a problem for small fixes, or visual changes but once you have big protocol changing features verifying everything takes a lot time and more often then not you might find something which you want to change / correct and then additional to reviewing you also code.
The even bigger part of work is communication: If you feel a feature / change should not be accepted (and there are a lot of those concerning the protocol, jsut read some pages in the dev section) you need to argue why it is so (after all the modder invested work into it, you can't just reject it). And then the discussion will start who is right.

Don't get me wrong, this system does work and many open source projects work just like that. But it does not save any time for the core team in our case.

As for protocol changes: Yes that is a problem, most of them will only have a real effect once the majority of the network uses them. That cannot be changed however at this point. But it's not the only way a mod/fork can diverse itself. There are enough of the local mechanics which can be worked first untill enough users feel like its worth switching. For example while I still do like the GUI very much, it's core is now nearly a decade old and could use a complete overhaul / update to modern elements.

If we do feel that one fork/mods stands out and might be a viable replacement for the offical mule we also might offer it more prominent visibility on the download page (if the modder wants that) to help attracting more users.

In any case, I do hope that we get arround releasing a new version which implements some fixes and maintance changes in the comming months, which will update eMule a bit to the changed conditions and line speeds.

#9 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:53 AM

I think with a large enough community yu could let mostly them decide on new features, and than merging it into the official would be as simple as a few clicks in the source management to set a community approved version as main.

On an other note, what is you attitude towards eMule clones like https://github.com/qmule/qmule would that be once advanced enough a replacement worth being advertised on the main page or would you only do that or an actual fork of eMule?

Also generally what would be th criteria for an client to become eMule official successor?
For example would it have to be GPL or would any Open Source license be Ok with you?

David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 15 April 2013 - 06:54 AM

NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#10 User is offline   technician23 

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostSome Support, on 13 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

If we do feel that one fork/mods stands out and might be a viable replacement for the offical mule we also might offer it more prominent visibility on the download page



Imule is ready?!
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#11 User is offline   UserEmule 

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:36 PM

View Posttechnician23, on 24 April 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

View PostSome Support, on 13 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

If we do feel that one fork/mods stands out and might be a viable replacement for the offical mule we also might offer it more prominent visibility on the download page



Imule is ready?!

Imule has been ready and working, only problem is that it seems to only connect to kad and misses servers/thereby missing files and takes twice as long to download files/upload I read when researching the program in the past. There is a thread about Imule here http://forum.emule-p...pic=154803&st=0
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#12 User is offline   Tuxman 

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:29 PM

Also, I2P is Java software, thus a major security hole.
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#13 User is offline   pier4r 

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:32 AM

View PostTuxman, on 06 May 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Also, I2P is Java software, thus a major security hole.


Why is a java software a security hole?

This post has been edited by pier4r: 17 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

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#14 User is offline   Zangune 

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:53 PM

At least a Java program needs Java :P so a security hole in Java is probably a security hole in a Java based program.
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