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Any News About A New Version?

#101 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

"What you are saying is basically that you would like to live in an anonymous society"

Not exactly.

While when you don't have the possibility to trace which IP belongs to whom later on.
You still can opt for an option that a ISP session can be while established frozen upon a request form the police.

So to say, while you grant anyone teh anonymity to so to say run the strats with a mask, once you see some one right now doing some "real bad shit" you can grab him and tear down his mask.

The point with that is that you can not never ever do this to enforce stuff against many people, as the logistical tresholds must be selected so high that it simple always will be infeasible to apply on a mas scale.



Than everyone who is not doing "real bad shit" is effectively anonymous.


Of cause even with such a law there could be foreign VPN's that does nto follow such requests, but if they cant monetize the filesharing masses, just a few perverts they wont be a viable busyness model.


Copyright enforcement is the single worst thing that happened to the prosecution of CP spreaders ever.



David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 12 February 2012 - 01:05 PM

Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#102 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:16 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

You can however easly change your ISP or start an own one.

Try to get back in touch with the reality, or I might suggest you "to start an own Earth".
Your "own ISP" must obey the local regulations. For example, to keep a log of all connections from all the IPs, and give out this information to the authorities on specified conditions. So your own ISP must do the same - or there would be no "your own ISP".

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

but still you can try to catch him when he wants to sell the stuff he stole.

In anonymous world he will sell anonymously. Go catch.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

You just have to catch him red handed.

Have you ever heard about prevention of crimes?
Just out of curiocity: how many people you know who caught anybody "red handed"? Do you regularly carry weapons and practice "catching skills" to be up to the task?

Quote

Quote

Besides you did not even try to explain how would anonymity help in defeating criminal activities

I don't even said that it would.

Maybe because you have no idea 'how to', but only repeat the same mantra "privacy is more important" over and over again.
By the way, who told you that this mantra is the universal truth?

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

You still can opt for an option that a ISP session can be while established frozen upon a request form the police.

But previoiusly on the subject of police you said:

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

it is however better than to be left at the whims of the state, as the state has the monopole on violence (a.k.a. police).

So what, bye-bye the utmost importance of privacy and welcome back the violent police?
I often heard people blaming police nearly for everything, yet in case of trouble they do call the police, not ghost busters.
Is it not a schizophrenia?
1

#103 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

View Postfox88, on 12 February 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Your "own ISP" must obey the local regulations. For example, to keep a log of all connections from all the IPs, and give out this information to the authorities on specified conditions. So your own ISP must do the same - or there would be no "your own ISP".


The point is that the state can not have the right to force the ISP to log all connections.
The whole point of geting somethign out of teh states influence is that anyone can open a completly different offer and the comsumer can freely choose what he wants.

A ISP that sels his data and spies on him or an ISP that does not log anything.

Quote

Have you ever heard about prevention of crimes?

Yes, this is not done by oppression but by education.

You dont prevent crimes by doing it impossible to commit a crime, you prevent crimes by teaching people not to want to commit a crime in the first place.


Quote

By the way, who told you that this mantra is the universal truth?

See the esampel with CP and cmamaras in each home.
if it wouldnt be seen so by the majority of humans, we would have cameras in every home to prevent CP from being made.

Quote

So what, bye-bye the utmost importance of privacy and welcome back the violent police?
I often heard people blaming police nearly for everything, yet in case of trouble they do call the police, not ghost busters.

The point is that you allowthe police only to survey if there si already a crime in progress and only stuff directly suspected of being in connection with the crime.

I never said that the police should be abolished or so.

Just that its competence should be limited accordingly to how the public percive thair priorities.

Meaning police against CP ok, police against piracy No No.

David X.
Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#104 User is offline   hooligan3000 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

socks5 with udp will be fine
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#105 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:49 PM

David, you really ought to get back to reality. You sound like an idealistic communism (or [enter any other hyper idealistic world view here]) fanboy dreaming about a world that will never exist. As long there is greed there will be no such things as truly free and fair markets or a total lack of crime. Smart people do not always refrain from doing the wrong (criminal) thing as much as uneducated people don't all become criminal at some point. Education is important but it is not the cure for all our societies failures. As long there is scarcity of resources, greed and the thrive for power you will have to accept that there is a need to keep certain elements at bay. I am not in favor of logging all connection data and welcomed it when the German Bundesverfassungsgericht stopped the logging of connection data. But saying that the state should not do this or that in order to allow full privacy to anyone is not right either. It is all about the balance. Excess in either direction is worse than living a good compromise.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 12 February 2012 - 03:51 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

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No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#106 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:28 PM

Stulle, it is simple,
you can not enforce arbitrary laws with any means necessary.
Sometimes our society says that a particular liberty is more important that prosecution of some crime.

See my example with CP and cameras in every home, if our society would enforce any laws at any costs there would be cameras sorveying every person and those no CP would be created, in fact no laws could be broken at all.

But we as society say that our privacy is more important than that, despight the fact that we are letting her very despicable crimes happen.

Why should it be diffident for the Internet?
Why are should we enforce any law with draconian measures only because it happens in the cyberspace?

In my opinion we should not.

The Internet should be free form logging and mentioned earlier IP quick freez should only be allowed for very serious crimes.


A free society in order to preserver hair freedom always must allow for unpunished crime to happen to some degree.


David X.
Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#107 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

The point is that the state can not have the right to force the ISP to log all connections.

ISP must follow the law. If you want any changes in IPS' behaviour, change the law - and thus change the state.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Quote

Have you ever heard about prevention of crimes?

Yes, this is not done by oppression but by education.

You dont prevent crimes by doing it impossible to commit a crime, you prevent crimes by teaching people not to want to commit a crime in the first place.

David, are you from Mars?
Preventing crimes by teaching/education alone never could eliminate crime completely in real life (on Earth, at least).
You gather confidential/private information and use it in investigations of already commited crimes and for prevention of future ones. That, plus education, plus fear of being caught and punished help to keep the criminals at bay.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

See the esampel with CP and cmamaras in each home.

It was your idea, but there is no way cameras could help in this case.
Using non-working idea to prove general statement about overall importance of privacy is a great example of faulty logic.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Meaning police against CP ok, police against piracy No No.

By enforcing more anonimity you can make the battle "police against CP" hopeless for the police, but that's not all.
Since you are not going to abolish the police, I hope you could agree that certain amount of anti-piracy activity should exist. Then, someone else (you might call it no-no-police, if you like) would do the job, and their task would be to force people to obey the law. Now, what's the basic difference between ordinary police and no-no-police? None.

View PostStulle, on 12 February 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

You sound like an idealistic communism

What communism? We have here quite an extreme case of liberalism.
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#108 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:05 PM

View Postfox88, on 12 February 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Preventing crimes by teaching/education alone never could eliminate crime completely in real life (on Earth, at least).
You gather confidential/private information and use it in investigations of already commited crimes and for prevention of future ones. That, plus education, plus fear of being caught and punished help to keep the criminals at bay.


You can never eliminate crime completel, and by the way you shouldn't.

The state should never be allowed to gether confidential/private information about people who are not suspected to be criminals.

Those the state should not be allowed to log who had when which IP.

Quote

It was your idea, but there is no way cameras could help in this case.

Oh yes, thay would, if everything everyone ever does is recorded, no on e can commit a crime ans escape the punishment.
So having everyone filmed would allow to prosecute everyone who is making CP.

But for some reason we prefer people making CP running free than having state cameras in our homes.

The same way we prefer people sharing CP on the Internet than having IPs logged.

Quote

hope you could agree that certain amount of anti-piracy activity should exist.

No amount of anti-piracy activity should exist.

Quote

Then, someone else (you might call it no-no-police, if you like) would do the job,

There should be no someone else.

The people must be completely free to share culture on the Internet any way they want.


David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 12 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#109 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:08 PM

fox88: I did not limit it to communism and I was merely pointing out that Davids suggestions are headed toward a idealistic world that can never exist. I was not trying to make a point about which kind of ideology was involved only about the futility of the whole idea.

David: Just to clarify this for you again, I am not in favor of ridiculous logging sprees. But I am neither for complete online anonymity. Again, the balance has to be found. fox88 is quite right about your camera at each house example because it is merely a rhetoric trick to show us how utterly stupid the idea of a Big Brother like system is. It does not work, though. There is some need to be able to track internet activity because all internet activity is originated in the real world. The internet is all about interaction of different entities living in this world. You can no longer view it as some kind of secluded set of private roads. Having said that it implies the definite need for some means of identification if the need arises. That need has to be defined with great care and should always be backed by the reasonable judgment of the jurisdiction. All your actions leave traces in real life just like in the internet. Live with it or choose to obscure your footprint in a paranoid frenzy every time you are about to do something. The choice is yours to make at that point.

Edit: No amount of anti-piracy? Let me hear that again when you built up a business and it got ruined because someone just took your idea, stole it and made you go bankrupt. You are getting pathetic at this point!

This post has been edited by Stulle: 12 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

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No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#110 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:11 PM

Stulle,

The point of as I previously stated that "balance" is not to allow logging of IP adresses unless in an ongoing police investigations applied only to selected few suspects.

Quote

Edit: No amount of anti-piracy?

Yes and I'll stick with it in any case.

You would have to be a hypocrite to change you opinion basing on a change of your personal situation.


I believe the right to share culture without any limitations is a fundamental human right basing on articles 19 and 27a of the human rights.
Those any amount of anti-piracy measures is simply wrong.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 12 February 2012 - 05:13 PM

Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#111 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

You can never eliminate crime completel, and by the way you shouldn't.

Can or cannot is one thing, but why should not?
Unless you find pleasure in the idea of allowing to cut your throat "to some degree", I bet you will change that opinion should you happen to be the victim.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

The state should never be allowed to gether confidential/private information about people who are not suspected to be criminals.

Total rubbish.
You're definetely from another planet.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Oh yes, thay would, if everything everyone ever does is recorded

It would mean not only a camera in every room and cubicle, but also in every tree in the forest and on every rock in the desert and so on.
And even 'if' it is possible, it does not prove that privacy is most important. Just because you can only disprove general statment with example; not to prove.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

No amount of anti-piracy activity should exist.

Right now that simply would not work; at least on this planet. You better launch a new Earth project; because here you'll be hugely disappointed.
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#112 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:40 PM

View Postfox88, on 12 February 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

The state should never be allowed to gether confidential/private information about people who are not suspected to be criminals.

Total rubbish.
You're definetely from another planet.

So you believe the state should have the right to getter intel on law obeying citizens ?
Thats total rubbish.

The state is on the most civilized countries prohibited form spying in any way on people whom are not become due to some ill doing subjects of an criminal investigation.

And the same simply must apply in the Internet.

David X.
Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
1

#113 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:46 PM

If you are a law abiding citizen there is nothing for you to fear. I don't mind being filmed when I am in a public place where cameras are installed to discourage criminal actions. Same applies to the internet.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

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No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#114 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

View PostStulle, on 12 February 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

If you are a law abiding citizen there is nothing for you to fear. I don't mind being filmed when I am in a public place where cameras are installed to discourage criminal actions. Same applies to the internet.

Thats plain wrong.

So you also don't have any objections to a camera in your home?

How about letting the police search your home once a year randomly, your are in the end a law abiding citizen there is nothing for you to fear, right?


PS: or how about abolishing your right to Secrecy of correspondence and let the state read all your mail, your are in the end a law abiding citizen there is nothing for you to fear, right?


David X.

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 12 February 2012 - 06:51 PM

Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#115 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

Nope, again, I consider the internet to be a public domain. Just like any bank, bar or library. I know that I am in public and I behave as such. Home is where my computer is. I don't want the entirety of the public (internet) to access my home (computer) but I need to leave the premises of my home (computer) to get to public places (the internet).

The information is only getting interested if its linked and you should know that. Nobody cares for my name if they see I am up to no bad. If I was they have any right to make use of the information they acquired.

Get this thing in your head already, the internet is not the place where you walk about naked because you are in your own premises where nobody cares. It's a public domain. This is why you use a firewall (i.e. door) when you connect to the internet and probably don't when you connect to any other local computer.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 12 February 2012 - 06:56 PM

I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

Posted Image

No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#116 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

@Stulle

So when you leave your home to get in public you strap your social security number to your for head so that anyone can uniquely identify you if he sees you doing something wrong?

No?

So why should you do that on the Internet?
Is the Internet somehow more public than "the public"?



Also how about abolishing your right to Secrecy of correspondence and let the state read all your mail, your are in the end a law abiding citizen there is nothing for you to fear, right?
The postal system is not private just like you say the Internet isn't, right?



The thing is simple, if your grand parents could send informations of any kind to anyone without writing a return address on their mail (they could even send bombs), using public anonymous telephone booths, why should you be forced to provide identifying informations on the apckets you are sending through the Internet?
In my opinion you should not, and those the IP (that is needed for technical reasons) should never be logged.


David X.
Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
0

#117 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:43 PM

I am not strapping nothing to my face. But I carry my face and my ID around. If a police officer wants to see my ID I show it to him and he will know my name. Other than that no one will who I am unless I tell them. The same thing happens in the internet. The information anyone can get is my IP. Only when any third party asks my ISP and has the authority to ask them they will get the name belonging to that IP. This is the same as in real life. Don't try to mock my intelligence as I don't mock yours. You know very well that an IP alone says nothing apart from which ISP it is registered to. Thus the IP is nothing more than a face in an anonymous crowd that receives or sends information.

Actually, the postal service is privatized, thank you very much. The German constitutions does protect the secrecy of correspondence. I don't know about Austria but I believe it to be a universal right in all of the EU. Either way, nobody is reading the data you send and receive on whims without any judge backing that kind of action. The state requires us to register where we live and hence do they know which postal address belongs to us. Requiring ISPs to keep track of the virtual address you used is not any different. In fact, only doing that upon request from a judge is even less of an interference from the state than requiring any citizen to register.

Nobody is forcing nobody to refrain from using secretive methods to obfuscate the origin of any message at this point. Don't make it sound like there is some kind of conspiracy tracing your every step because there really is not. There are political movements toward undesirable new laws that try to adapt old principals on the internet. This is an eyesore to some people (and you apparently) who thought the internet is a playground that holds no consequences for the user. It is not.

Instead of mocking my intelligence with those ridiculous analogies of yours you should rather ask yourself how realistic you are in your aims, reasons and wishes. Not everyone is intelligent enough to function at a level I would like to attribute to you. Radical change is not something we can afford in our civilization if we want to retain peace amongst ourselves. Look to northern Africa and look to Greek! Unless you want a similar situation in all of the western world you will have to come to terms with the idea that the internet is not the playground you want it to be. And in order to not be that playground there is a necessity to implement measures that allow tracing users.
I am an emule-web.de member and fan! Hate me or people will get suspicious about you! Ever wondered if it's all worth the trouble?

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No, there will not be a new version of my mods. No, I do not want your PM. No, I am certain, use the board and quit sending PMs. No, I am not kidding, there will not be a new version of my mods just because of YOU asking for it!
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#118 User is offline   fox88 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

So you believe the state should have the right to getter intel on law obeying citizens ?

In your imagined immaculate world - of course not. Otherwise it might be a necessity, not a pure curiocity. There could be a problem with the limits of such investigations, but that's another question.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

The state is on the most civilized countries prohibited form spying in any way on people whom are not become due to some ill doing subjects of an criminal investigation.

I wonder, which are those most civilized countries in your opinion?

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

And the same simply must apply in the Internet.

Very well, if it's the same in your opnion.
Then consider the following: if it might be necessary to gather data offline, then it might be needed online too.

View PostDavidXanatos, on 12 February 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

So when you leave your home to get in public you strap your social security number to your for head so that anyone can uniquely identify you if he sees you doing something wrong?

Who teached you logic? The example is wrong: you wanted more anonymity, while the SSN will decrease your anonymity.
Note: a real life exersise on extra anonymity when you put on ski mask and enter bank office, might be hazardous to your health.

This post has been edited by fox88: 13 February 2012 - 06:04 AM

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#119 User is offline   DavidXanatos 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostStulle, on 12 February 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

If a police officer wants to see my ID I show it to him and he will know my name. Other than that no one will who I am unless I tell them. The same thing happens in the internet. The information anyone can get is my IP. Only when any third party asks my ISP and has the authority to ask them they will get the name belonging to that IP. This is the same as in real life.

That really is not the same.

A police officer asking for your ID would be like the quick freeze I described earlier.

If you wear your face in the public, unless your face is in a known offenders database or unless you are halted by a police officer no one can later on basing on your face of a photo of this, find out where you are living not even the police.

Those You are really anonymously in the public.
In the Internet however anyone who saw you IP (face) can call the police and they can find out where your are living.

With your face in the real world usually they couldn't do that yet.


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Actually, the postal service is privatized, thank you very much

Just Liek the Internet.
So is communication over the postal system any more or less public than communication over the Internet?

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The German constitutions does protect the secrecy of correspondence. I don't know about Austria but I believe it to be a universal right in all of the EU

And why shouldn't this right apply to the Internet?

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The state requires us to register where we live and hence do they know which postal address belongs to us.

You completely missed my point, which was that when your are sending something through the postal system, you can do this as the sender completely anonymously, by stating non or a fake return address.
Just like the silk road operated.


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Requiring ISPs to keep track of the virtual address you used is not any different. In fact, only doing that upon request from a judge...

Only upon the request of a judgewould be my described quick freez.
but ISP's are tracking all customers in case a judge decides later on to reveal the informations.

And thats wrong.
There should be no IP's logged unless specifically requested so for a limited period of time for a specified IP or customer on a judge order.



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I wonder, which are those most civilized countries in your opinion?

For example USA befoure 9/11 with they "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine.
They can not use any evidence gathered illegally, and for all surveillance measures they need a judge approval.
Immagine Postata
NeoLoader is a new file sharing client, supporting ed2k/eMule, Bittorent and one click hosters,
it is the first client to be able to download form multiple networks the same file.
NL provides the first fully decentralized scalable torrent and DDL keyword search,
it implements an own novel anonymous file sharing network, providing anonymity and deniability to its users,
as well as many other new features.
It is written in C++ with Qt and is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.
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#120 User is offline   Stulle 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:50 PM

This is pointless. I might not be the best one to put my ideas in short sentences but if you pick every sentence apart entirely while ignoring those that you don't seem to know how to reply to we can just as well quit this discussion. I asked you not to mock my intelligence and here you are trying to prove me wrong with partly invalid arguments that take a very biased look at things. And just to support this observation here is what is wrong with your arguments:

1. My face is just as good as an identifier as my IP. If I was up to something bad anybody could make a photo or take a photo from a public camera's recordings and issue a warrant for me. That is the risk I am taking if I am around in the public. In fact, my parents had their car searched by the criminal police once because they were on holiday near a place where some poor old woman was murdered. How did the police get to them? The camera at some gas station provided enough information to track them down via their car registration. They did nothing wrong and yet here they were on tape and being searched almost 1000 km away from they place they fueled up. Same basic principal, nothing to worry for them.

2. For the umpteenth time, the internet is a public domain as is anything outside of your doors that is not inside other peoples doors. As such is any information you send or receive on the internet transmitted via a public service that is accessible to anyone who is willing to pay for it. Just like any other postal service! Being transmitted in public does not entail the message itself being public!

3. The right for secrecy of correspondence extends to any kind of correspondence, no matter what the medium. Nobody is aiming to abolish this secrecy and if somebody were to try that in Germany be sure that the Bundesverfassungsgericht, which already forbade storing connection data without any kind of suspicion, would have some very strong feelings about that and somebody is bound to bring such a thing to court. If you truly did not know this then why am I even talking to you? Or is it really just trying to mock my ability to think logically?

4. And yes, you can use a fictional address. But like I pointed out - and you would have known if you would have bothered to read the entire paragraph - you can do just that on the internet and nobody will stop you at this time.

5. It is current practice to delete security camera tapes a few hours after they were shot. Doing the same with IP information, applying the exact same standards can be considered reasonable. Or would you disagree to that as well?

Lastly, remember where you live. If you truly think you can change the world with a bit of idealistic talk go ahead and try changing the world but don't be upset if you don't succeed. Focus on more immediate problems and do it in a reasonable fashion and you might have the opportunity to change something. Right now there is probably no one with enough power to successfully support you in your endeavors who would be willing to do so because idealistic talk does not get you reelected or a good job in the industry. And that is what politics is all about.

This post has been edited by Stulle: 12 February 2012 - 10:52 PM

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