Official eMule-Board: Are 'exact Phrase' Searchs Possible In Kad/global? - Official eMule-Board

Jump to content


Page 1 of 1

Are 'exact Phrase' Searchs Possible In Kad/global? How might one perform an 'exact phrase' search?

#1 User is offline   Klozov 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 06-September 09

Posted 19 October 2009 - 03:29 AM

The subject says it all.

Is it possible to write and 'exact phrase' Boolean search expression (or ANY known way) which would work in Kad or Global searches? i.e.- [Search For: Easter Eggs] not [Search For: Easter AND Eggs] or [Search For: Easter OR Eggs] for example.

If possible to do please provide an example.

TIA

-Klozov
0

#2 User is offline   fox88 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4974
  • Joined: 13-May 07

Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:09 AM

You can search for combination of search terms only.
0

#3 User is offline   Wulp 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1860
  • Joined: 08-July 05

Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:08 PM

I'm not sure I understand your example...
Anyway, exact phrases are more or less possible with "quotation marks" (except for the keyword). Should also be possible in boolean searches.
Have you seen the online help page about searching for files?
0

#4 User is offline   Klozov 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 06-September 09

Posted 21 October 2009 - 12:32 AM

View PostWulp, on 19 October 2009 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand your example...


Maybe my example isn't too clear but I'm sure you are familiar with an 'Exact' Search. Refer to the second line of search parameters in a Google Advanced Search. i.e.- "this exact wording or phrase:"

That's what I'm talking about and there is no mention of that kind of search in the FAQs.

Also, try to use your "in quotes" remark in KAD and see if you indeed get an 'EXACT' result or, like me, only phrases or words I'm looking for which are also in quotes.

-Klozov
0

#5 User is offline   Wulp 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1860
  • Joined: 08-July 05

Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:48 PM

Ok, I'll just give some examples on my part to see if we mean the same thing...
In theory, when you search for "easter egg" (including quotes) you should get results which should NOT contain easter.egg, egg easter and such, but SHOULD contain of course easter egg and also aneaster eggy.

I'm not quite sure how well it works with server searches, since I don't use them so often (but I suppose it's possible there).

The problem with the Kad search is that it needs a keyword without quotes, so you can't just search for "easter egg" in Kad or you'll may only get results with "easter egg". But you can use a little workaround trick by repeating the phrase or one of its words without quotes and at the beginning, so that Kad can use it as keyword, for instance:
easter "easter egg" SHOULD bring you results including easter egg but NOT with easter.egg or egg easter or such (as long as it doesn't also contain an easter egg phrase).

It's also possible with boolean excluding (aka NOT, but instead one can use - (minus) directly previous to the to be excluded word):
Typing easter egg -"easter egg" SHOULD avoid results including easter egg but can include all other possible arrangements with easter and egg.

The boolean OR is again a little problem in Kad: You can't just search for easter OR egg because easter would be taken as keyword and therefore all results will contain easter. So, an OR search can only be done after the second word (irrelevant if exact phrase or not), like easter egg OR bunny (results must contain easter and will then contain either egg or bunny).
It's also possible to use parentheses for more complex search expressions.

This post has been edited by Wulp: 21 October 2009 - 04:41 PM

1

#6 User is offline   fox88 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4974
  • Joined: 13-May 07

Posted 21 October 2009 - 07:40 PM

View PostWulp, on 21 October 2009 - 07:48 PM, said:

In theory
Let more knowledgeable people correct me if I make a mistake: when eMule publishes files in KAD, it splits file names into words. There is no data about word order in indexes.
In practice: I used a two word title of one very well known album. Let's call it "termA termB".
Search string - results:
"termA termB" - 0
'termA termB' - 0
"termB termA" - 0
'termB termA' - 0
termA termB - 305
termB termA - 347

This post has been edited by fox88: 21 October 2009 - 07:59 PM

0

#7 User is offline   Wulp 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1860
  • Joined: 08-July 05

Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:16 PM

View Postfox88, on 21 October 2009 - 09:40 PM, said:

when eMule publishes files in KAD, it splits file names into words. There is no data about word order in indexes.

Yes, and every word is indexed separately. But at a search it actually searches for one word of the entire search expression only, the keyword, all other words are just treated as "filterwords" - while ignoring the word order.
That's why your last two examples should bring more or less the same results. But in the other examples it would take a quotation mark as part of the keyword (as can be seen in the Kad window), that's why the search fails.
It should work if you typed termA "termA termB" by which you offered Kad the possibility to use a reasonable keyword (termA instead of "termA).

This post has been edited by Wulp: 21 October 2009 - 11:29 PM

2

#8 User is offline   James R. Bath 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 790
  • Joined: 02-August 04

Posted 22 October 2009 - 05:26 PM

View PostWulp, on 22 October 2009 - 12:16 AM, said:

It should work if you typed termA "termA termB" by which you offered Kad the possibility to use a reasonable keyword (termA instead of "termA).

Your trick does work. In fact, it works if you type termB "termA termB". As long as the search begins with 1 of the terms, it does the equivalent of a phrase search. With that in mind, there is a lot of stuff released with periods, parentheses, and brackets instead of spaces separating words, so you'll still need to perform multiple searches to capture all the possible ways the phrase may have actually been entered as a file name. But, you can accomplish that in one search like this:
termB "termA termB" OR "termA[termB]" OR "termA.termB"

It would be nice if eMule automatically extracted one of the terms in the quotes and performed the search the way it needs to be done for it to work. Requiring the user to guess or trick it into doing the search doesn't help files get shared.
Currently recommending and using: eMule beba 2.63
For slot control only, currently recommending: Tombstone Xtended 1.0 (or higher) if you absolutely must have slot control


Posted Image

Quote

Where there is a mule there is fuel. Where there is a stool sits a fool. - Winston Churchill

0

#9 User is offline   Klozov 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 06-September 09

Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:42 PM

Thanks for the info/tips/tricks/etc. Have been away for a bit but will be trying implement some of these suggestions into my searches soon.

-Klozov
0

#10 User is offline   Klozov 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 06-September 09

Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:43 PM

Thanks for the info/tips/tricks/etc. Have been away for a bit but will be trying implement some of these suggestions into my searches soon.

-Klozov
0

#11 User is offline   HisPetsMaster 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 27-April 04

Posted 09 November 2009 - 07:26 AM

ok... here is a slightly different question, how do to wildcard searches? that is, StringB would be the search term and it should return StringBxyz, from what I understood from above, you use "" marks but... I tried that with known files that I can get without the quotes and it would not bring the files up... since it seems to consider the quotes as part of the string!!

is there some parameter I have set that needs to be unset in preferences? or am I doing something wrong?

ok.. in reading the above again I see some of the issues, but still.. I need to figure out how to do a wildcard pre and post StringB. It must contain the StringB but any added/extra characters before and after should be ok too.

This post has been edited by HisPetsMaster: 09 November 2009 - 07:34 AM

0

#12 User is offline   Wulp 

  • Golden eMule
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1860
  • Joined: 08-July 05

Posted 09 November 2009 - 02:15 PM

View PostHisPetsMaster, on 09 November 2009 - 08:26 AM, said:

it seems to consider the quotes as part of the string!!

See my post #5, "The problem with the Kad search ..." :)

Quote

I need to figure out how to do a wildcard pre and post StringB. It must contain the StringB but any added/extra characters before and after should be ok too.

Only the keyword cannot contain wildcards.
The thing is that Kad always uses one of your words as keyword and it searches for this exact word (no wildcards possible).
So if your search term consists of only one word, e.g. stringB, then you'll find only results with stringB but none with stringBxyz.
However, if your search term consists of several words then all words except for the keyword can automatically be part of bigger words (no typing of wildcards like * needed):
When you search for stringA stringB, and stringA is used as keyword, results can contain abcStringBxyz.

Which word is used as keyword is chosen by Kad automatically (usually the longest word). But there's an preferences.ini option which makes Kad to always use the first word as keyword, so by rearranging the word order you can manually decide which one should be the keyword. (I don't remember what's the entry, see online help or changelog.)

P.S.: This refers all to the Kad search.
Server searches are again a bit different:
AFAIR by adding a wildcard (*) to the end of a word you define that this word should not be used as keyword.

This post has been edited by Wulp: 09 November 2009 - 02:22 PM

0

#13 User is offline   HisPetsMaster 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 27-April 04

Posted 24 December 2009 - 05:56 AM

thank you... this partially deals with my issue. part of the problem is that it is very hard to include a keyword that will also be present with the StringB when StringB is part of a larger string... ie StringBxyz OR abcStringB... etc.

still, using the StringA StringB is a usable trick for some of my issues. That might also explain why it is that I have found files doing a multi term search, that where not found with single term search.
0

#14 User is offline   Klozov 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 06-September 09

Posted 24 December 2009 - 06:22 PM

Thanks again for all the inputs. Using the: TermA "TermA TermB" trick solved 90 percent of the exact phrase search issues I was trying to put into words originally. Now I have have more kad search information than my (what I used to think was fairly logical) illogical mind can digest in one seating. I need to work on this additional info a bite at a time, so to speak.

And god bless coders who write software for not-so-logical & not-enough-time-to-be-little-more-than-poorly-informed dummies like me. ...and manage to, somehow, still make it useful for users of ALL skill levels! For they shall inherit the earth. ...or maybe even something better.

-Klozov
0

  • Member Options

Page 1 of 1

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users