[ElChele]

Hi everyone
I'm looking for home, in Barcelona chinatown.
bye

[lugdunummaster]

So what ? lowid clients are increasing. Everybody knows that. No need for a proof.

I even said why lowid were increasing so much, (chinese increasing count).
Since they mostly sit behind NATS, so they CANNOT get highid, even if they are a nobel prize laureate.
No one reading this will EVER help them. You can be a nobel prize laureate yourself, it wont help.


Since lowid clients are increasing, servers must raise their lowid limit, or die.

Try to understand what happens when a lowid emule cannot log into a server.

It keeps retrying forever to login, harrassing one server (many emule have only one server in their list)

Not every emule client has a guy sitting behind, trying to understand what its emule is doing.

Now try to think what happens if 50.000 lowid emules are trying to connect to one server, forever.
Server has to answer to their requests (mixed with requests from highid nice guys), and faces a DDOS.

Hello Server, I am emule user.
Fine, I am trying to reach your 4662 port to check if you are a highid or not
Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away
...
Hello Server, I am emule user.
Fine, I am trying to reach your 4662 port to check if you are a highid or not
Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away
...
Hello Server, I am emule user.
Fine, I am trying to reach your 4662 port to check if you are a highid or not
Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away
...
Hello Server, I am emule user.
Fine, I am trying to reach your 4662 port to check if you are a highid or not
Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away


A DDOS means eating all CPU cycles and network bandwidth for facing the attack. In case of lowid login
attempts, its a permanent attack.
Some providers will just poweroff your server because they think its

the only choice they have to reduce the network load on their routers (remember, the things that are shared by
other customers in the datacenter ?)

If you dont understand this, try this :

You are in Cairo, and you think :

Oh, the Nile should not flood us with 2.000.000 liters per second, thats way too much for my litle brain.

Let's try to force it so that no more than 1.900.000 liters per second pass this bridge...
Then, in 3 months, force it to 1.800.000 liters per second.

They are some things you cannot fight against.

[a white rabbit]

..emule is stuck with an increasing number of low-ids, certainly where i am, in the Phils, it seems few if any ISPs are primary providers. Mine, Smartbro, sublets from a primary in Germany and so i'm stuck in a small pond i can't get out of, or more accurately can't get at the sluice gates of..

..i know of other small ISPs that are subletting from Smart, and i suspect the same is true across Asia, which has a rapidly increasing internet-using population via WiFi..

..now if someone can tell me how to circumvent my provider's controls, i'll willingly do the necessary to get a hi-id..

[DavidXanatos]

The emule dev's should implement a limitation that a automatic connection attempt to a given server can only be done every x minutes, meaning when a connection atempt fails the next to the same server one is done at least in a few minutes and not after cycling throu all servers, this would reduce the load a lot I think.

The Low ID problem is getting biger and biger and I belive in the most cases the user can not solve the problems and often event dont realy know he have one.

I believe it is nessesery to Implement NatT in the official client and adapt kad to be able to handle higher LowID percentages.

For booth servers and kad I think callback limits should be implemented, limiting the amount of allowed callbacks (Booth high2low and low2low) to a curtain reasonable amount in a given time frame, the client should be informed about how many callbacks are allowed in a given time period so he can adapt his connection limits and source limits to work well with the value.
I belive 10000 sources as a global limit is a reasonable value, so lets assume for simplicity the client tries to balance this to have not more than 5000 LowID sources, under normal reask contitions this are around 180 callbacks per minute (ok this looks to be a bit high but about the exact valies can be discuseed later).

The point is that this allows the server/kad buddy to manage his overhead/load caused by the callbacks without limiting the connectivity to much, since it affects only cases where a cleint have many sources.
So a client can still downlaod an extreemla rarefile form an lowID, maby by dropping soem other low ID's from files he don't need so much or have there HighID sources for it.

David

This post has been edited by DavidXanatos: 11 October 2007 - 08:00 AM

[torpon]

To avoid DDOS like behaviour, the "Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away" reply could br treated as an error, this way limiting the number af calls to ten.

Cheers

[ElChele]

Lug said:

It keeps retrying forever to login, harrassing one server (many emule have only one server in their list)

IIRC, in this case server ban to you, for aggressive behaviour.
bye

[jestheonlyone]

Quote

To avoid DDOS like behaviour, the "Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away" reply could br treated as an error, this way limiting the number af calls to ten.

Also, maybe the message "warning you have a lowID, please review your network settings" could be displayed in a dialog box, to be a bit more incentive.

Possibly with some extra explanations such as "As a lowID, you will not be able to connect to half of the available sources, and you will have up to 30 min extra waiting time in every waiting queue."
And maybe a link to the forum and/or online help.

(and of course, with a "Don't show again" box, for those who really can't fix their lowID)


This won't help Chinese people of course, but this could at least help reducing the amount of French (or other) lowID users. Maybe it would be negligible from the servers point of view, but maybe still be better than nothing anyway...

[Dick_Manitoba]

ElChele, on Oct 11 2007, 08:01 AM, said:

Lug said:

It keeps retrying forever to login, harrassing one server (many emule have only one server in their list)

IIRC, in this case server ban to you, for aggressive behaviour.
bye

That is only if your client does this too quickly. But if all servers are at maximum low ID limit, and 1,000,000 low ID users are still trying to connect (properly, not fast!), it will still create additional overhead and CPU for the server. With a server list of 20-30 servers, how many times will an eMule TRY to connect to one of those servers? How many connections will this be if 1,000,000 eMules are doing this?

[MadlyMad]

jestheonlyone, on Oct 11 2007, 02:32 PM, said:

Quote

To avoid DDOS like behaviour, the "Sorry you are a lowid user and my lowid limit is reached, please go away" reply could br treated as an error, this way limiting the number af calls to ten.

Also, maybe the message "warning you have a lowID, please review your network settings" could be displayed in a dialog box, to be a bit more incentive.

Possibly with some extra explanations such as "As a lowID, you will not be able to connect to half of the available sources, and you will have up to 30 min extra waiting time in every waiting queue."
And maybe a link to the forum and/or online help.

also, Error Messages From Server Could Be Shown In Your Own Language
this way, the user has more chance to understand what is said, the explanation can be bigger, and the string is a lot less long, it's still a gain server-side when going throught a DDoS attack lookalike

Quote

but maybe still be better than nothing anyway...

lugdunummaster, on Oct 11 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

So what ? lowid clients are increasing. Everybody knows that. No need for a proof.

the aim is to say that, chinese issue is real, that's a fact okey, but as you see the problem exists a LOT in our european countries too
where MOST of us aren't behind a NAT device, MOST of us can solve his lowID easily if he is some way or another pushed (and helped) to do it

Quote

They are some things you cannot fight against.

I agree, in your example this is true, we cannot change the river flow (well, actually we can somehow)

but this is a bit difference than here with lowIDs issue,
there some things we can do, some things we can try, different solutions can be found, that maybe will help just a little bit, but still help, which is still better than nothing as Jes' said
and as we all know, even a small improvement on a such numerous users is welcome and is a good thing to have


most of lowIDs from european users can be solve, that's a fact and nothing has been done yet to try to lower this big problem
why not for example making a difference between countries on server...
I mean : a lowID from a known-filtered-country would be less annoyed by server limit whereas a potentially-resolvable-lowID from another country would have been more restricted

[lostcowboy]

Before we get side tracked here, Madlymad did come up with a good ideal of having the client show the error message, that way the error message would show up in a understandable language. I would like to add to that, It would be a very good idea for all server error messages to work this way. It would reduce the amount of server load, the server would only have to send one or to words that are flags. Like 00000000 could mean no errors, then each bit that is set would mean a different error. Please understand I am not talking about the advertising message that most of the servers send, that would not change. By making the error message into a pop up, it would be irritating and make the client want to fix the problem. one of the things the low-id client needs to understand is how much it cost him to be a low-id client. I have a lot of PD files that no one wants, so I often have no queue, even in a no queue situation, the low-id client waits before being able to download. I have seen wait times of one hour, on them.

Also in this forum, when someone asks for help, it seems there are a lot of people who say things like "do a search" or some other statement that does not help the person with his problem. I know that port forwarding is the number one problem, and has been asked and answered over and over. Just remember that for everyone who is brave enough to post a question on here, you likely have ten others lurking, that need the same help. If you come back to this one person in a way that implies that he is dumber than dirt, for not being able to do port forwarding. Not only is he likely to remain a low-id client, but the ten others that were lurking, also will remain low-id clients.

[a white rabbit]

lostcowboy, on Oct 12 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

Also in this forum, when someone asks for help, it seems there are a lot of people who say things like "do a search" or some other statement that does not help the person with his problem. I know that port forwarding is the number one problem, and has been asked and answered over and over. Just remember that for everyone who is brave enough to post a question on here, you likely have ten others lurking, that need the same help. If you come back to this one person in a way that implies that he is dumber than dirt, for not being able to do port forwarding. Not only is he likely to remain a low-id client, but the ten others that were lurking, also will remain low-id clients.

..unfair, at least i found it not like that at all, the help was there, but, the problem was/is unsolvable for now..

..i've managed to increase my bandwidth, the computer's got go-faster stripes provided by the manufacturer, but in the end, i can't change the basic programs of my ISP, tho' maybe you know different, tell me how...

[MadlyMad]

no opinion about at least Error Messages In Your Own Language Lug ?

[MadlyMad]

HyperNodeSTHNS, on Oct 14 2007, 02:48 AM, said:

NatT, to allow LowID to LowID user interaction.

that's great, but this doesn't help in the fact that more there is lowIDs on network more it's bad for servers...
so, more servers have to spread bandwidth for them, more the ed2k network health is in danger

without this problem I believe ed2k has a pretty good life expectancy



PS : please try to stay focus on the topic of this thread

This post has been edited by MadlyMad: 14 October 2007 - 01:37 AM

[DavidXanatos]

@HyperNodeSTHNS
Nider NatT nor the normal High2Low ID comunication is routing traffic throu the servers,
the servers only helps the 2 cleints to establish a connection by tehling the secund the first wants to connect.

David

[alicetee]

(LowID is when a user cannot receive external initiated connections)

The problem is, that more and more clients will have LowIDs since mosts providers giving internal IPS and don't make port forwarding. In few years we will have only a small percentage of HighIDs and this gonna be a problem. 30%? 20%? What percentage of LowID will kill P2P network (Edonekey, KAD, etc?)? A solution can be found?

[lugdunummaster]

Quote

no opinion about at least Error Messages In Your Own Language Lug ?

This is not a question for me.
eserver doesnt know user pref language.
Only the client software can do this.

(Ie mapping standard "messages" received from the server to appropriate and localized messages)

[xylo9]

Perhaps a web page with the server messages in many languages, and instructions on how to resolve the error. The message from the server to client contains a link to that web site error page. The web page can be part of the official emule site. The server message should attract attention as much as possible (i.e. a dialog box).

[PacoBell]

xylo9, on Oct 17 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

The server message should attract attention as much as possible (i.e. a dialog box).

Hopefully, with an option to turn it off

[xylo9]

PacoBell, on Oct 18 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

xylo9, on Oct 17 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

The server message should attract attention as much as possible (i.e. a dialog box).

Hopefully, with an option to turn it off

Yes, hidden deep inside the Advanced features..

[ElChele]

Assuming that each server message, it has a numerical identifier, (ID). - (from server side)
I guess app. client, in this case emule, it knows the pref language, Also one (ID). (From Client side)
And the identifier (ID), who correspond to each server message. (From Client side)
Would only have to pass these 3 parameters to a function, that was in charge to handle the messages of the client side.

Just an example, (virtual values!!!)
This example assume that a translated server messages DB, already exist.

Msg from server: warning you have a lowID, please review your network settings.
Msg_Server_ID = 1005. (from server side)
User_Lang = 1033 - (Spanish)
Msg_Client_ID = 830 - (From Client side)

Message correspond to 830 value : Aviso!!, tiene ID baja, por favor revise su configuración de red.

bye