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Low Id clients increasing Might be limited by servers?

#1 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:34 PM

I still really can't understand why so much servers admin tweak up the default (20%) lowID percentage limit on their server :(

this is such a bad idea <_<


imho this should be hardcoded so it could not be set at more than 25-30% or so

considering MOST of them are not unfixable lowIDs, this cost a lot of BW per server (BW that could be use for some unconnected HighID), and this is especially very bad for the network reconstruction period like thoses days

really can't understand this... :(

This post has been edited by MadlyMad: 08 October 2007 - 07:35 PM


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#2 User is offline   lugdunummaster 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:09 AM

Quote

I still really can't understand why so much servers admin tweak up the default (20%) lowID percentage limit on their server sad.gif

this is such a bad idea dry.gif


Only a server owner can understand this :)

When you have a default limit, your server has to face a DDOS : many lowid users are trying to connect to your server, in an endless loop.

In order to be able to serve usefull trafic and not only SYN packets, you have to raise LOWIDpercent to match the actual proportion of LOWID clients in emule network (50 %)
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#3 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:39 AM

okee thx,

View Postlugdunummaster, on Oct 9 2007, 09:09 AM, said:

In order to be able to serve usefull trafic and not only SYN packets, you have to raise LOWIDpercent to match the actual proportion of LOWID clients in emule network (50 %)

Yeah but that's the point, correct me if I'm wrong, but this percentage has increased pretty wild since few years,
And I believe this is not only due to ISP tools, but to thoses eserver settings put by admins too

Quote

When you have a default limit, your server has to face a DDOS : many lowid users are trying to connect to your server, in an endless loop.

then this setting should be decrease on all eserver-with-big-lowIDpercent-limit of about 5% every month (let's say), so the network could reach a smooth 10-15% which is quite better for everybody, ex-lowIDs, HighID, server admins and network health...

'cause doing nothing will have the same consequence than it already did, the percentage of lowIDs on network will increase again and again.... :(

:unsure:

This post has been edited by MadlyMad: 09 October 2007 - 11:48 AM


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#4 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 01:24 PM

btw, most of time, I see 60% of lowIDs :( :(
(IIRC few years ago this value was up to 30 or 40%... this makes a big difference... :/ especially on millions of users...)

the mean of my thought is, if you do not really limit them, lowIDs can connect quite easily on one or another server
So we highly discourage them from solving their lowID issue... which makes the lowID percent growing more over (especially with new users coming on ed2k)

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#5 User is offline   lugdunummaster 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:46 PM

Quote

then this setting should be decrease on all eserver-with-big-lowIDpercent-limit of about 5% every month (let's say), so the network could reach a smooth 10-15% which is quite better for everybody, ex-lowIDs, HighID, server admins and network health...


Please do us a favor. Open your own server and try this. I am sure you will get credit for finaly solving the lowid disease.
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#6 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 06:14 PM

for sure It won't resolve the problem if only one little server do that... but if every admins does this I really believe it can works, and, it worth the try
and, as it's quite difficult to convince them it could be at least as an option (enabled by default) in server software

as you said, it's a disease.... so something's got to be done to cure this, before it's incurable

(Yeah, it's picturesque)

but, do you really want the network to have 80% of lowIDs in one or 2 years ??? :huh: :(



PS : I'm aware about the Nat-Transversal thing, but I believe something could be done server side to lower this problem first
'cause Nat Transversal won't fix the unconfigured mules issue.

whatever...... Posted Image

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#7 User is offline   lugdunummaster 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:21 PM

Quote

but, do you really want the network to have 80% of lowIDs in one or 2 years ???


More and more users are coming
Most of these new users are chinese.
Most chinese people are behind NAT devices.
Most of people connected to servers are chinese.
Before this chinese flood, we had 22% of lowid in network.

So yes, we probably hit the 80% mark in less than one year.

Welcome to reality.
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#8 User is offline   Dick_Manitoba 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:46 PM

I live in a predominantly Chinese neighborhood, and I can say for sure, that is good news :D I just hope my neighbors all use eMule. We're going to need a lot of buddies.

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#9 User is offline   torpon 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:49 PM

If low id users are about 22% why so many users in this forum are seeing double or triple percentages in statistrics, and increasing?

Cheers :D

#10 User is offline   lugdunummaster 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 08:24 PM

Quote

If low id users are about 22% why so many users in this forum are seeing double or triple percentages in statistrics, and increasing?


Maybe because you dont read english quite well ? :)

Before this chinese flood, we had 22% of lowid in network.
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#11 User is offline   torpon 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 08:36 PM

:worthy: It seems I lost Sesame Street chapter about Before and After :ranting:

Cheers :D

#12 User is offline   PacoBell 

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:21 PM

View PostDick_Manitoba, on Oct 9 2007, 12:46 PM, said:

I live in a predominantly Chinese neighborhood, and I can say for sure, that is good news :D I just hope my neighbors all use eMule. We're going to need a lot of buddies.
Those Chinese seem to be the kings of HD encoding, so I'm going to be a long-time buddy, for sure :+1:
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#13 User is offline   Andu 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 05:46 AM

How will that even work if more than 50% are LowID? As far as I can tell the Buddy system only works 1:1.
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#14 User is offline   ElChele 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 12:03 PM

I think the solution in not support plenty lowID, but educate lazy people to get HighID.
bye
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#15 User is offline   aachen 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:38 PM

View Postlugdunummaster, on Oct 9 2007, 05:24 PM, said:

Quote

If low id users are about 22% why so many users in this forum are seeing double or triple percentages in statistrics, and increasing?


Maybe because you dont read english quite well ? :)

Before this chinese flood, we had 22% of lowid in network.


my client ALWAYS detect 30-35% of LowIDs <_<
thats a problem, and very bad to future of emule and KAD network
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#16 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:19 PM

View Postlugdunummaster, on Oct 9 2007, 09:21 PM, said:

Quote

but, do you really want the network to have 80% of lowIDs in one or 2 years ???


More and more users are coming
Most of these new users are chinese.
Most chinese people are behind NAT devices.
Most of people connected to servers are chinese.
Before this chinese flood, we had 22% of lowid in network.

So yes, we probably hit the 80% mark in less than one year.

Welcome to reality.

Well....

I just launched a test, by suing a whole new eMule, new installation (so, new userhash/cryptkey, totally clear stats... clear clients.met clear nodes.dat etc...)


My test is simple, launching 3 very known french files, without using Kad at all, and see what happens

here are the results exactly 7 Hours after launching the 3 big known files :


Posted Image
---
Posted Image



Hmmm, as you can see, with a total of 4760 known clients, there is 62,3% of lowID users !!!! :o :-1: :(


To be more sharp, it was 3 recent US movies.... in French langage !....

I honestly really doubt chinese people download thoses kind of files :-k :P neither other foreign countries except france...

well, I know there is a Chinatown in Paris but I don't think this makes such a big difference ^_^ :P


and I really doubt as well, that more than One of 2 french client (!!!) is behind a NAT device that he can't configure and can't solve his lowID problem B)


therefore, as I said, there is a (big) problem and something gotta be done to solve it, or at least try to lower it.....

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#17 User is offline   coluche 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:00 PM

all very nice and worth a discussion about possible counter-measures.
But what does that have to do with satanedokeyserver software ?


Why not make an extra topic for it with an appropriate title so maybe more folks interested in that subject would find the topic to discuss this in ?


How come french eMules are even worse than average ? Maybe file-related ?
(really popular stuff You found there :D )

This post has been edited by coluche: 10 October 2007 - 10:07 PM

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#18 User is offline   torpon 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:25 PM

Done

Cheers :D

#19 User is offline   jestheonlyone 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:10 PM

hi

unless French language has become very popular in China, I agree with madlymad (or at least with his constatations):
58.8% of lowIDs here, although ~half of my requested files are totally useless for those who don't understand French (~54% lowIDs amongst the clients who request those files)...
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#20 User is offline   MadlyMad 

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 11:29 PM

Thank you (and sorry) for splitting this torpon


yes, I could understand that maybe 0,0001% of chinese would have been interested in watching a French movie in French, but watching a US movie in french... :huh: I believe the chance for this to happen is quite small :angelnot:

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